converting ROPS to foldable

[johann]

thanks all for response. I don't intend on selling it until the whole tractor is ready to be sold as scrap. I will keep your sugestions in mind in case there is an unexpected change in plans. I think as far as liability is concerned I don't think any one really has the right to sue Kubota if they roll over their machine so that takes the rops failure out of play even if left unmodified. Kubota has their *** covered when they tell you not to use on too steep a slope, so if you do you failed............anyway we could all hash up all sorts of rediculas legal b.s. and really all just end up frusterated. I would be interested though in seeing pics of mods if any one has them. Just2quick,....I havn't looked into what it would cost to buy some, I just figured it would be quite a wad of cash.....did I figure wrong?

 

[lostcause]

i wouldn't worry too much about future liability. frivolous injury lawsuits tend to follow big money,so unless you're a manufacturer, it's probably not a huge issue. sure, you could get the odd person who will try to sue, but that's why you put that nice clause in the bill of sale: "as-is, where-is, for parts only, with no implied warranty."

aside from that, the folding rops would probably be a selling feature. i see tons of people still buying and using older non rops tractors, and any that use a standard car garage (9x7 or 8x7 door) to store or work on them would want the folding rops. my jd770 barely clears one of them. anything larger wouldn't make it. they'll be happy to have a folding rops.

it's always nice to err on the side of caution, but i've seen a lot of people here who wear a belt and suspenders with overalls. heck, i think some of them would turn themselves into the epa if they held an aerosol can at the wrong angle and accidentally released some of the propellant into the atmosphere.

 

[Soundguy]

um.. if I bought a tractor with a certified rops, and that rops failed in a manner in which it was not suposed to.. I think that would be a legit sticking point / hot poker in a legal case.. product liability lawsuits can get expensive fast.

soundguy

thanks all for response. I don't intend on selling it until the whole tractor is ready to be sold as scrap. I will keep your sugestions in mind in case there is an unexpected change in plans. I think as far as liability is concerned I don't think any one really has the right to sue Kubota if they roll over their machine so that takes the rops failure out of play even if left unmodified. Kubota has their *** covered when they tell you not to use on too steep a slope, so if you do you failed............anyway we could all hash up all sorts of rediculas legal b.s. and really all just end up frusterated. I would be interested though in seeing pics of mods if any one has them. Just2quick,....I havn't looked into what it would cost to buy some, I just figured it would be quite a wad of cash.....did I figure wrong?

 

[wvpolekat]

Also, most people have personal liability insurance with their homeowners. Mine is $100,000.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. and it's a good thing to have ( personal umbrella.. etc. )

soundguy

 

[Gary Fowler]

My comment was addressed toward safety of the unit only. In todays world any one can sue anyone for any frivolous reason and cost you a fortune in legal fees even if you are totally innocent. I stand by my comment that if you follow the design of a like model folding ROPS and use same material or better, you will have a product that will perform as well or better than the manufacturers design. This would be for your personal use only and not to be sold to anyone else without then signing a disclaimer and having it notarized. That said even with ROPS and seat belt own, there is not a 100% guarantee that you wont be hurt in a roll over. These things are nothing more than seat belts in a car, in that they add protection if used properly. I am sure none of the manufacturers have a warranty that says you can not possible get hurt in a roll over if you use my product. If they did, I wouldnt buy it because it is ludicrous to think that would be true.

 

[Soundguy]

. This would be for your personal use only and not to be sold to anyone else without then signing a disclaimer and having it notarized. .

I wouldn't even do that. In many areas you cannot waive your rights..

best to sell it as scrap metal or a sun shade holder, and remove the rops sticker on it.

soundguy

 

[Gary Fowler]

Well yes, but better to just give it away as free scrap. That really limits your liability. I think in order to do that you would need to remove it from the tractor though.

 

[RobertN]

I always come back to the aftermarket Off-Road arena with these threads. If this was as big a deal, then the 4x4/off-road industry would be gone.

When my Dad got his Jeep years ago, the first thing that happened was a front cage installed. Welded to the existing factory rollbar. Fabricated at a welding shop. When I got that Jeep years later, I changed to a newer style factory rear rol bar. Then added a different front cage kit that had better head room. Then, when the kid was born, I added a "family cage" to that back.

Everyone I knew that had Jeeps MB/CJ2a/CJ3B/CJ6/CJ5/CJ7, Bronco's, Scouts, Land Cruisers, Blasers, we all did that.

And, If I were to get a Jeep again, it would be the first thing I would do.

So... What is the difference to tractors? Do I now have to worry the rest of my life about the Jeep I sold with the modified ROPS? That's a rollbar.

All of this too, would put race car fabricators ect out of business.

I would not advocate just going out an hacking on a ROPS. On a tractor or a Jeep. But, I do not think it is that huge a deal. I would though, want it welded by someone who really knows how to weld... I would not weld my own Jeep ROPS or tractor ROPS; I know I am not a very good welder.

it' s not about magic.. it's about liability to some extent.. and engineering and materials to another extent.

the person modifying the rops may or may not have a better design than oem, and may or may not have used materials or techniques better than oem.. however.. once he modifies it.. he loses any liability protection.. and in fact I can think of ways he takes on liability himself if another gets hurt using the machine and it boils down to a failure that the oem rops would have survived.

in many things in this world you don't need to worry about the engineers.. you need to worry about the jury....

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

All of this too, would put race car fabricators ect out of business.
.

I bet if you looked real close at the specifics, you might find that 'race car' industry was considered inherently hazardous, participate at your own peril. That classification tends to limit or remove liability. I know it's that way with the horse industry in florida. Equine event holders are protected form liability arising from the sport. even spectators that show up are covered under tht law ( equine limited liability ).. ie.. if you are at a horse race and it jump a fence and crushes your spouse.. you are SOL can't sure. horses are considered inherently dangerous, and your participation ( defined as simply as presence at the event ) at the even puts your liability in your own hands.

I'd speculate that many super dangerous sports/hobies probably deal with that.



soundguy

 

[wvpolekat]

Would tractors not be considered inherently dangerous?

 

[Soundguy]

I wouldn't consider them inherently dangerous.

Standing next to my tractor with it turned off.. I doubt there is much for it to do to hurt me. Now stand next to a cantankerous horse and let him play the 'guess my weight' game.. or get in your space when a fly bites him.. or a car backfires...

I'll stand next to the tractor any day... and I OWN horses..

soundguy

 

[johann]

I GIVE UP, THANKS ANYWAY ! What a can of worms! I thought in my posts that I expressed well enough that I am not interested in talking liability bs, I just was looking for tips on how to do it, or alternatives like just2fast suggested about rops from another bx.Sorry to get you all stirred up I will be more careful next time I post.

 

[tlbuser]

um.. if I bought a tractor with a certified rops, and that rops failed in a manner in which it was not suposed to.. I think that would be a legit sticking point / hot poker in a legal case.. product liability lawsuits can get expensive fast.

soundguy

Get off the soapbox. There aren't any ROPS safety police and OSHA doesn't apply to non-commercial owners.

 

[tlbuser]

I GIVE UP, THANKS ANYWAY ! What a can of worms! I thought in my posts that I expressed well enough that I am not interested in talking liability bs, I just was looking for tips on how to do it, or alternatives like just2fast suggested about rops from another bx.Sorry to get you all stirred up I will be more careful next time I post.

There have been others in your shoes.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/7875-roll-bar-modification.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...216-resale-modified-roll-over-protective.html

This one is similar with a touch of humor added.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/33807-im-gonna-drill-my-roll.html

 

[Egon]

Smaller diameter sleeve inside?

This idea sounds promising.

Have you checked out folding rop's on tractors to see how they are made. Perhaps just copy one of them.

Is it possible to just lower the height of the rop's? On my tractor it does not seem to be as high as some I've seen.

 

[foggy1111]

Who certifies them and where do you go to get that done?

OK....I forgot to tell you guys that I AM THE OFFICIAL CERTIFIER.....and I hereby proclaim your certifications are all expired. Please send 20 bucks to me at once....and I will re-certify your ROPS so you will be good to go....until I make another proclamation. :thumbsup::laughing::laughing:

 

[Soundguy]

I GIVE UP, THANKS ANYWAY ! What a can of worms! I thought in my posts that I expressed well enough that I am not interested in talking liability bs, I just was looking for tips on how to do it, or alternatives like just2fast suggested about rops from another bx.Sorry to get you all stirred up I will be more careful next time I post.

I am not stirred up.. and you must have missed post #5 where I mentioned finding an already certified set of rops for a similar machine that would also fit yours.

soundguy

 

[Just2quickz28]

I am not stirred up.. and you must have missed post #5 where I mentioned finding an already certified set of rops for a similar machine that would also fit yours.

soundguy

I am heading to my dealer this week to check on an upgrade to my machine, I will price out the rops from the BX24 for you.

 

[Soundguy]

Get off the soapbox. There aren't any ROPS safety police and OSHA doesn't apply to non-commercial owners.

I think you missed the point by a country mile.

If I bought a new tractor for my personal use.. and it's rops failed in a manner they should not have.. ( lets say defect in workmanship or materials so that the rops yelided way under rating ) I think that would be a legal basis for a product liability lawsuit. You don't have to be in business to sue over something.

That said.. say the machine gets sold to 'bobs lawn service' down the road.. and bobs employee gets killed when the home-modified thing that used to be a certified rops folds up and the operator is killed. the widos lawyer will likely get the hot poker out and start examining 'bob' I'm sure bob will mention that he just bought the thing from the guy down the street.. and if the lawyser is worth his salt, he will investigate that rops.. the average person may not be able to ID a well copied rops conversion.. but a rep from the company looking in a spec book seeing a fixed rops came on that machine would know it. when the liability started trickling down, I see the certified rops people getting a free pass since it was modified. I see bob getting sued badly since he did not have a real rops to protect his employees. I see alot of excess liability available to be handed out to anyone standing near..

Sounds far fetched huh? not really. I handle alot of our HR and insurance at work.. let me fill you in on what happens in a lawsuit.

Our business is at the intersection of a SR and county road. a few years ago, the state road was straight thru, and the county road had stop signs. our fence is further back from the row than it needs to be, just so that it is easier to see at that intersection.

The county decided to erect a new traffic signal at that location, and did so.. had the signs up for weeks about the new signal and patterns.. then put the lamp up in blink mode for a couple weeks.. etc. a national contractor did the work.. I see them all over doing traffic signalisation. one day a 16yr old girl who just got her dl and a new car THAT DAY, was riding with her 15yr old boyfriend, and stopped at the stop sign, then pulled into the intersection.. atout 3' in front of a semi with a long box of cargo going the speed limit ( 45 ).. It was horrible.. girl died on the scene after a long time extracting her from what was left of the car which was now part of the semi engine. boy survived with a traumatic brain injury, was in a coma for a YEAR, and finally came out of it last I heard.

GPS on the truck shows he was doing the speed limit.. witness's on the scene at the jiffy store catty-corner to our shop saw the entire thing.. girl made a mistake and pulled out in front of the truck.. RIGHT IN FRONT of him.. he had no where to go, no time to react.

parents sued:

truck driver, trucking company, cargo company that owned the trailer being hauled, owner of the freight IN the trailer, county, contractor that installed the traffic signals, individuals that worked for the contractor on that particular job where the traffic signals were instaleld, county workers that removed old sinage from the intersection, our company since we were on the corner where the accident occured and the owner of our company personally.

Imagine that...

Judge removed owner of our company, contractors employees, and county employees from that list, then let the rest of it go to court. In the end, the liability insurance companies for all other listed parties agreed to each pay an equal share of a 6 digit payout... and felt that it was safer than going to court and getting a multi million dollar loss from a sympathetic jury over the loss.



That's the starke reality of liability... I'm not making this stuff up.

'stuff' happens. don't happen to everybody.. but when 'it' does, and the 'stuff' hits the rotary oscilating device, then everybody involved gets covered in 'it'.

there's your soapbox...

soundguy