Cooling Filter for Deutz (1430-1845-1850)

[AltavistaLawn]

That's a little drastic. I wonder if a group of us could go meet them and discuss the issues and improvements. If we did a good job and not just turn this in to a complaining session it might work wonders. We could then follow it up with a yearly meeting. I think they are open to suggestions, just not through the Internet.

And we could bounce some ideas here about a good fix for the overheating. I think if fresh clean air could be fed to the cooling intake and generator, it might fix a lot of the problems. Some type of forced air, filtered induction.

 

[MikeOConnor]

What we're starting to describe is similar to the "user groups" that are nurtured in the information systems world (and I'm sure others, that's just the one I'm familiar with).

They do several things.

a) Keep track of problems.
b) Keep track of desirable new features
c) Create ranked lists of both, which PT could use to guide their engineering efforts

I think we could do something like that pretty easily. Is anybody from TractorByNet monitoring this forum? All we'd need is a little problems/features database that we could collectively maintain, and a polling mechanism so we could vote for the ones that we'd like to get fixed.

We should be aware of the bias of pure voting -- that means that people who own machines like my 1850 are likely going to have to wait in line behind people who own more popular machines, since there will be more people voting for those bugs. One way to offset that would be to rank the lists by machine type, but that's biased the other way. Something we can figure out no doubt.

If TBN can't do this, it would be easy to set up elsewhere.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I think we could do something like that pretty easily. Is anybody from TractorByNet monitoring this forum? All we'd need is a little problems/features database that we could collectively maintain, and a polling mechanism so we could vote for the ones that we'd like to get fixed.


If TBN can't do this, it would be easy to set up elsewhere.

But, will PowerTrac Listen?

 

[BobRip]

But, will PowerTrac Listen?

I think if about 10 people showed up (with advanced notice), and good document preparation they would likely listen. But, who knows. It might be good for some one to call PT and open a conversaton to see if they will listen. We should prepare a document of some kind first.

 

[RegL]

But, will PowerTrac Listen?

You guy's are making me nervous. I'm afraid PT might start listening, discontinue what they are doing now and start building a great little 60 thousand dollar tractor.

 

[J_J]

I think if about 10 people showed up (with advanced notice), and good document preparation they would likely listen. But, who knows. It might be good for some one to call PT and open a conversaton to see if they will listen. We should prepare a document of some kind first.

Bob, I really don't think that would work. They are an independent company, and the mining part of the company is their major income. I think the PT was an after thought to sell something similar to the mining equipment. They have set up their company with no satellite stores according to their history to give PT owners a good deal by eliminating the middle man. They now sell with a warranty, and after that is up, the cost of operating, and maintaining the PT is all yours. They will sell you the parts at retail prices, where as every one knows, most can be purchased elsewhere. I have only purchased a few parts from them that I could not find locally or Internet. Those were the one of a kind parts that no one else makes. I simply find the vender's that sell the same thing or similar at a better price. Either you must be good at maintaining the PT, or you let the service outlets maintain your machine. An analogy might be, the electronic car. most of the backyard mechanic are fading away, about the only thing most of us can do now is the oil ,tires, battery. If PT goes to high tech electronics on the PT, they will have to have service vender's, or let you swap out parts till you get it right. I was an electronics tech/operator in the Navy years ago, but they are far, far ahead of things that I knew then. Basic trouble shooting is simply good old common sense. That applies to anything.

I would suggest that PT likes it the way it is. They figure this forum is their free complaint, and maintenance department. If I had a decent manual and technical description of things, I would rather fix things my self. As it is, I do what I have to. I am not ashame to ask for help. It is a good thing when people share the knowledge they have.

 

[BobRip]

I work on my own machines too and do prefer that. Perhaps we should just continue to use kind verbal persuasion when on the phone with PT and hope that works for the best. Some owners will get a much less reliable machine that they expect, but you can see that on most every forum here and heck, I owned a Rambler for 14 years and kept it running and it saved me from buying a Vega (thank goodness).

By the way, I feel working on the modern cars is not harder than the old ones. However, you must buy the diagnostic computer $100 to $300 dollars) and the OEM service manual ($100 to $500) to do this. I find most people don't want to do this and don't understand its value.

 

[AltavistaLawn]

We'll probably have to fix / re-engineer it ourselves. The cooling problem is the main concern. I have a shop, getting ready to put up a second shop, we do 90% of our own repairs and maintenenance, we just trouble shot and fixed my '98 Dodge Cummins; the repairs would have exceeded $1,000.00 at a shop, we repaired it for about $200.00, inc. labor.. it has 266k miles on it, and will go 500k easy.

The cooling system for the Deutz on the 1850 is adequate for a generator, ship power, or water pump application; but not for agricultural or mowing applications.

Technically it is a maintenance issue if u can keep the oil cooler 100% clean and clear it will keep it cool enough to operate. The fact is u have to stop , tear it down and clean it out hourly while mowing in the heat AND THIS IS NOT PRACTICAL. Every 8 hours, I can see.

There needs to be a filtered forced air intake system to get air to the engine, all the 1850's are overheating and will not have enough useful life to justify their cost. At $35k with the mower, the machine needs to make it at least 3000 hours or 10 years, just to absorb the asset cost, usually businesses can monitor reapir costs and when they exceed a point u know to replace it; but u can't when the machine is still practically brand new and breaks down weekly.

 

[RegL]

I was trying to figure why 1845 and 1850 have more overheating than the 1430. My engine will run pretty hot, about 220 deg., but I have never had an alarm or shut down.
Looking at the specs ( link below ) for the 2011f series, which replaced the 1011f, even though the bigger engines have more hp, more cylinders and more weight, the outside dimensions are almost the same. Maybe they all use the same size oil cooler which is OK for the 2 cyl 1430 but not adequate for the larger tractors in tough conditions. I wonder if Deutz has any options for cooling?

Deutz diesel engines, industrial ratings

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

I was trying to figure why 1845 and 1850 have more overheating than the 1430. My engine will run pretty hot, about 220 deg., but I have never had an alarm or shut down.
Looking at the specs ( link below ) for the 2011f series, which replaced the 1011f, even though the bigger engines have more hp, more cylinders and more weight, the outside dimensions are almost the same. Maybe they all use the same size oil cooler which is OK for the 2 cyl 1430 but not adequate for the larger tractors in tough conditions. I wonder if Deutz has any options for cooling?

Deutz diesel engines, industrial ratings

Based on my experience with the 1845, I doubt that a difference between 1430 and 1845/50 would be explained by use of the same cooler. In the right conditions, my 1845 cooler plugs to the extent that it wouldn't cool a smaller engine either. If the core on the 1430 is different, possibly with larger passages, maybe that would explain it. It may also be that the 1845 and 1850 mowers throw more chaff.
I use my 1845 for pasture trimming, which in dry times puts up a cloud of small chaff, seeds, etc. Is there anyone on the board who uses a 1430 with 3 spindle mower in similar application?