COP 357 4 shot derenger

[JJT]

You can get the biggest gun around, but it doesn't do you any good if you don't have it near by. Being serious about personal and family defense has nothing to do with caliber and gun size. Serious means getting a firearm of the size and caliber that works for your situation and actually training with it.

Serious means everyone in the house is trained.

 

[MF1652]

Serious means everyone in the house is trained.

Absolutely:thumbsup:My wife's a better shot than most cops I know.

 

[Sigarms]

9mm and .38 spl. have long been adequate for most.

Believe it or not, I agree with you

Interesting though how a bunch of FBI agents some time ago in Miami made LE agencies second guess themselves.

You can get the biggest gun around, but it doesn't do you any good if you don't have it near by.

I would also add that it does no good if you can't hit your intended target.

 

[nickel plate]

I keep a Colt Python 6" BBL loaded with .357 mags on my night stand because I don't think I could throw the slide fast and safe enough on my Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP. I could probably keep it chambered and simply cock the trigger but that's a lot of steel flying around in the hands of a heavy sleeper. I'll stick with the revolver for the first line of defense.

 

[Bird]

Believe it or not, I agree with you

Interesting though how a bunch of FBI agents some time ago in Miami made LE agencies second guess themselves.



I would also add that it does no good if you can't hit your intended target.

If you're talking about the incident I think you're talking about, it wasn't just the size/caliber, but also the number of rounds in a gun. You know the FBI used to use the same .38 spl. that I was issued on the police department, and still have. In 1986, I took the FBI's pistol course at Quantico using the same .38 for the most part. We did do some shooting with S&W semi-autos that they were just starting to go to. And I believe it was 1988 when the Dallas Police issued their first semi-autos.

I believe, in Miami, the bad guys had ballistic vests, too, so yep, you've got to hit your target and it also helps to determine exactly what or where that target is. Law enforcement officers were trained for years (and still are primarily) to aim for the biggest body mass. That's best in most cases, but not always.

I don't know about other states, but the shooting required for a CHL in Texas is almost a joke, as you can see here: Texas CHL Shooting Proficiency Test. At least, I agree with his last 2 sentences.:laughing:

Compare that with the Dallas Police qualifying course, in which all strings start with a holstered weapon. After each string, it's up to the officer to "fix their weapon the way they want it and holster." If he forgets to reload at the right time, that's tough; no alibis, no Kings X, no do over allowed. And once holstered, the weapon cannot be taken out of the holster until the target turns for the next string. Two speed loaders are necessary for revolvers. Three magazines are necessary for semi-autos.

1. 5 rounds from behind the barricade at the 25 yard line in 15 seconds.
(this is the only time the barricade can be used to brace on if desired)

2. 5 rounds from the 15 yard line in 10 seconds.

3. 15 rounds from the 7 yard line, 3 turns of 8 seconds each.
Fix the weapon the way you want it and holster after each turn; i.e., each 5 round turn. If you're using a semi-auto that holds 15 rounds, you don't have to reload, but otherwise . . . you're on your own.

4. 10 rounds from the 3 yard line, 2 turns of 8 seconds each.
One-handed only; i.e., on the first turn, draw and fire 5 with the strong hand only, then transfer the weapon to the other hand and be ready to fire the next 5 with that hand only. Again, you may or may not have to reload depending on the weapon you're using.

5. 15 rounds from the 7 yard line in 25 seconds, one turn of the target.
Semi-autos can only have 5 rounds in each magazine, speed loaders can have 6 rounds in them, but you can only fire 5 before reloading, so in addition to firing 15 rounds in that 25 seconds, you have to reload twice, or as they call it "complete a combat load" twice.

So, it's a little more difficult qualification than the CHL proficiency test. The other fly in the ointment is that the CHL test only requires a score of 70 to pass. The police course minimum passing score is 80. And the only concession for us old retirees was that on that final 15 rounds, if using a semi-auto, we could load 7 & 8 in two magazines instead of 5 each in three magazines, so only had to reload once.:laughing:

First time I tried this course with the revolver without knowing what to expect, I only scored 83.2 and had 5 rounds left over; didn't reload fast enough on that final 15 (I was only putting 5 in the speed loaders instead of 6 and dumping a live round each time which is recommended).:laughing: And first time with the Sig P229, I only scored 92.4, so I hope to do better next month.

 

[Soundguy]

For those who were not aware of it, the Texas Capitol building has metal detectors and such for security, but created a special lane for CHL holders to enter. So you might find this story amusing.

Wayne Slater: Austin reporters use gun class as fast pass into Capitol

thank you for posting that.

very neat!

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

some very good points in the last few posts.

you really do need a 'plan'.. everyone needs to know what to do in an emergency. we keep our cell phones and a portable by the bed.. if power or phone is out.. cell is backup. wife knows how to shoot. her first gun was a ruger .22lr target pistol. she probably put 3000 rounds thru that thing before I bought her another gun.. the 38 tarus. in an emergency she knows where to go, what to do.. and I've got my part.

when we too our CWP tests it was from a nra certified instructor from the sheriff's dept who did the local law enforcement. we even took it on the LEO range too. part of our course was to be able to reload blind folded and clear common jambs like stovepipes and such. chamber, clear and rechamber switch mags or revolver speed laoders or individual rounds without looking at the gun.. including knowing your gun and being able to work slide locks, releases, safety's, hammer / cyl release decockers and all.. whatever it had had to be muscle memory in case working in the dark, and also so you could keep your eyes open and on the 'target' while you reloaded or unjambed a gun.. instead of stairing down at it while your attacker was looking for you.. etc.

we were also instructed to keep firing untill the threat was positively stopped. no quick shot and then a pause to check the situation. at minimum a double tap and more if there was not 100% indication the threat was mitigated.

no need to have a huge hand cannon or a huge magazine if you know how to put your ammo on target.. 1 round of any commercially made ammo or caliber.. in the right spot can put just about anybody down.. that said... I don't shoot .25 acp..


soundguy

If you're talking about the incident I think you're talking about, it wasn't just the size/caliber, but also the number of rounds in a gun. You know the FBI used to use the same .38 spl. that I was issued on the police department, and still have. In 1986, I took the FBI's pistol course at Quantico using the same .38 for the most part. We did do some shooting with S&W semi-autos that they were just starting to go to. And I believe it was 1988 when the Dallas Police issued their first semi-autos.

I believe, in Miami, the bad guys had ballistic vests, too, so yep, you've got to hit your target and it also helps to determine exactly what or where that target is. Law enforcement officers were trained for years (and still are primarily) to aim for the biggest body mass. That's best in most cases, but not always.

I don't know about other states, but the shooting required for a CHL in Texas is almost a joke, as you can see here: Texas CHL Shooting Proficiency Test. At least, I agree with his last 2 sentences.:laughing:

Compare that with the Dallas Police qualifying course, in which all strings start with a holstered weapon. After each string, it's up to the officer to "fix their weapon the way they want it and holster." If he forgets to reload at the right time, that's tough; no alibis, no Kings X, no do over allowed. And once holstered, the weapon cannot be taken out of the holster until the target turns for the next string. Two speed loaders are necessary for revolvers. Three magazines are necessary for semi-autos.

1. 5 rounds from behind the barricade at the 25 yard line in 15 seconds.
(this is the only time the barricade can be used to brace on if desired)

2. 5 rounds from the 15 yard line in 10 seconds.

3. 15 rounds from the 7 yard line, 3 turns of 8 seconds each.
Fix the weapon the way you want it and holster after each turn; i.e., each 5 round turn. If you're using a semi-auto that holds 15 rounds, you don't have to reload, but otherwise . . . you're on your own.

4. 10 rounds from the 3 yard line, 2 turns of 8 seconds each.
One-handed only; i.e., on the first turn, draw and fire 5 with the strong hand only, then transfer the weapon to the other hand and be ready to fire the next 5 with that hand only. Again, you may or may not have to reload depending on the weapon you're using.

5. 15 rounds from the 7 yard line in 25 seconds, one turn of the target.
Semi-autos can only have 5 rounds in each magazine, speed loaders can have 6 rounds in them, but you can only fire 5 before reloading, so in addition to firing 15 rounds in that 25 seconds, you have to reload twice, or as they call it "complete a combat load" twice.

So, it's a little more difficult qualification than the CHL proficiency test. The other fly in the ointment is that the CHL test only requires a score of 70 to pass. The police course minimum passing score is 80. And the only concession for us old retirees was that on that final 15 rounds, if using a semi-auto, we could load 7 & 8 in two magazines instead of 5 each in three magazines, so only had to reload once.:laughing:

First time I tried this course with the revolver without knowing what to expect, I only scored 83.2 and had 5 rounds left over; didn't reload fast enough on that final 15 (I was only putting 5 in the speed loaders instead of 6 and dumping a live round each time which is recommended).:laughing: And first time with the Sig P229, I only scored 92.4, so I hope to do better next month.

 

[Bird]

wife knows how to shoot

Of course I don't think that's a bad idea at all, but a lot of people go their whole life without ever firing a gun and have no interest in shooting one. My wife wants me to carry one, encourages me to go to the range to practice, knows where loaded guns are in the house, but never touches them and has no interest in shooting at all. She fired one round through one of my .38s about 46 years ago, but I was also holding her hand at the time.:laughing:

 

[Sigarms]

I believe, in Miami, the bad guys had ballistic vests, too

I don't know about the vests, but overall it just seemed to be bad luck on the FBI's part on how everything played out when the vehicles came to a stop, as well as having by some accounts, two outlaws who were highly trained via the military and were prepared.

For myself, I always laugh at the ensuing 9mm versus .45 or .40 debate and what are the best self defense loads. It's not fun being shot at with ANY caliber.

I could be wrong, but I've always heard that the .22 LR has accounted for more deaths (civilians) than any other caliber out there. I can believe that.

 

[Bird]

I've always heard that the .22 LR has accounted for more deaths (civilians) than any other caliber out there.

Yes, my limited experience with gunshot deaths would tend to confirm that.

And the news media reports I've seen so far of the tragedy in Tucson yesterday involved a 9mm.