copper or brass chunks in my transmission oil

[Tractor Seabee]

In my younger day I rebuilt several manual transmissions from Toyotas to large trucks. Your tractor cannot be that much different than a truck. The bigger they are the easier as there is more room in the case, That Toyota was a bugger. The brass is no doubt the syncro mesh gears. Bang around rough drivers are rough on those brass parts, but that is why they are brass. Once the brass goes the iron gears are next as they now have no cushion when somebody jams it into gear. You have to pull the main shaft so transmission needs to be on the bench. If you are keeping it for some time I would also replace the bearings and seals; good insurance, otherwise do minimum to get it smooth shifting and sell it. A few chipped gears are OK but chunks off; replace. If you are not a wrencher; sell it honestly for what you can get and take your lumps. If RC meant what he said; he is the kind of guy that probably got you where you are.

Ron

Ron

 

[DarrenW]

Ok so here are a few more pics of the brass/copper bits and the bit of cast metal that I found in the trans oil filter.

I have gone through the exploded diagrams for the transmission, clutch, gearbox etc and I cannot really find anything that suits the size of the copper washer. It may be one of the pinion thrust washers?? would they be copper/brass?

Also the metal piece doesnt look like a took but maybe more of a gear collar or something? not sure.

See what you guys think.

Thanks

 

[coralhead]

Looking at the size of the broken ring that it may be part of the PTO clutch pack. If the diagrams are of the correct transmission, I see no synchros so that may eliminate that area. The approx. 1 1/2" dia puts it in a smaller area of the driveline/PTO. Are you positive it is a gear tooth? I could be a broken ear off a drive gear or housing. I would check the PTO under a load and listen for noise.

 

[sixdogs]

In finding odd noises, I find a mechanic's stethoscope (Harbor Freight) does a great job. It really pinpoints and magnifies the sound.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

If finding odd noises, I find a mechanic's stethoscope (Harbor Freight) does a great job. It really pinpoints and magnifies the sound.

Next step: Open it up and lookee see, or get rid of the best you can.

Ron

 

[DarrenW]

Thanks guys,

Yeah the washer seems too small and thin for gearbox or transmission? Its approx 40mm OD, 22mm ID and 1mm thick.

As for the steel piece, Im also not convinced its a gear tooth.

Ill see which parts are easy to pull off and see what I can see.

I did just find one bit in the maintenance manual where it talks about "specified thickness of thrust collar and pinion thrust collar" ans it was 1mm. Thats the only reference to 1mm washers/collars I can find anywhere in the manual, or exploded part drawings.

If either of those have higher backlash tolerances is it going to be a really big deal apart form extra wear on the gear teeth etc?

thanks

 

[sd455dan]

Thanks guys,

Yeah the washer seems too small and thin for gearbox or transmission? Its approx 40mm OD, 22mm ID and 1mm thick.

As for the steel piece, Im also not convinced its a gear tooth.

Ill see which parts are easy to pull off and see what I can see.

I did just find one bit in the maintenance manual where it talks about "specified thickness of thrust collar and pinion thrust collar" ans it was 1mm. Thats the only reference to 1mm washers/collars I can find anywhere in the manual, or exploded part drawings.

If either of those have higher backlash tolerances is it going to be a really big deal apart form extra wear on the gear teeth etc?

thanks

Good idea pulling a cover or 2 and try and find the damage.



jmo Worst thing you could do, would be to run as is... - I would At least try and remove any broken pieces from the sumps. As can be seen some of the pieces posted appear to have been through some gear meshing.
It may take some time and hard work but it sounds like good tractor to fix right and keep.

 

[DarrenW]

Pulled the bottom sump plate off the transmission, and good to see no more metal chunks in there.

The one metal bit that I did find (pictured above) in the transmission oil filter does actually look like a bit of cast metal. That being said, it shouldnt be any piece of the gears?? but maybe a piece of the casing that has busted off?

Due to lack of money, i'm seriously just thinking about topping up with new oil, testing the tractor in every gear, test the PTO under load, listen for any strange sounds and then if all good just leave it as is. Not contemplating selling as that just won't quite sit right with me.

Cheers

 

[mrmikey]

The metal looks like a tooth off either the ring and pinion PN 16 in the second pic or parts from the diff assembly, ring, pinion or spider gears pn's 6, 8, 13-16 of the third pic. I will admit the hook shape doesn't jive but I'm looking at the side of the piece in the first pic, looks to me like a wear pattern on the side as you'd get from that kind of a gear train.

If either of those have higher backlash tolerances is it going to be a really big deal apart form extra wear on the gear teeth etc?

Won't cause too much extra wear but the pressure points won't be in the correct, strongest area of the gear so the longevity of the part will suffer...how much?? your guess is as good as mine.
I think I'd look into it as deep as I'm comfortable with and finding nothing, do as you said and hope for the best. It's not the best solution and if you're willing to accept maybe more damage, go for it
Just my two cents worth................Mike

 

[mike48130]

Put a camera in there and take lots of pictures. You can see a lot more in pictures sometimes than you can see trying to stick your head in there. If nothing it is good reference for later. Roll the tractor back a foot and keep taking pictures to get all the areas if the gears. Maybe you get the right angle on one picture to see what is going on.
Could be from the differential lock? People like to jam those on when stuck.