COULDNT SHUT IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!

[escavader]

I had my first problem with my bx-23 today.I took off my chipper,cleaned up the tractor a bit,backed up to the hoe,and turned the key.....nothing,the gauges shut off but the engin kept running.I coulnt find any loose connections no where,after a half hour i was beggining to think it would run out of diesal,before i would ever get it to shut down.The last thing i did was pull some fuses ,and you know the one to the aux lighting was blown.I unplugged them lights under the seat and put a new fuse in and then the key switch worked.Kubota must have the injection cellinoid on the same circuit.
NOW THE BAFFLER.Plugged my lights back in all was fine,it never even blew my inline fuse i put in which is also 20 amp.I didnt have the lights on all day when the problem started i I have had them lights on a couple months..alls been fineI did hook up a 12 volt outlet this weekend,but its direct to the battery.WHATS GOING ON? Ran the tractor 4 more hours,starting and stopping,no problems...fuses dont blow for no reason.
ALAN

 

[chilibit]

I think that usually you shut off fuel to stop a diesel. So could there be a sticky solenoid?

 

[escavader]

I had a blown fuse,that cellenoid must be on that aux lighting circuit.changed the fuse alls fine dont understand what blew the fuse,wasnt even using the lights
ALAN

 

[tarbaby]

here are a few things to look at, check wiring harness between main switch and stop solenoid. the stop solenoid may be defective, the wire going to it is hot when key is on. last is the timer relay wnder dash may also be defective. hope this helps.

 

[Volfandt]

According to the WSM, the fuel stop solenoid, the 12v Aux plug under the seat and the safety switches are all in that 20amp circuit. Hard to say what could have popped the fuse. 1st thing I'd do is change out that inline fuse you put in to a smaller amperage thats less than the BX's 20 amp fuse. You might go to either a 10 or 15 amp & see what happens.

Volfandt

 

[wushaw]

If you used a hose to clean the tractor up a bit then water may have gone somewhere it shouldn't have.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Escavader:

Fuses sure don't blow for no reason - in fact, there is an explanation for every single thing - the fun is trying to figure out what it is. Of course, some things we will probably never know.

Based on what you've said, my best guess would be an intermittent short between the auxiliary light connector and your light switch. Your lights don't have to be on to blow either your inline fuse or your fuse-box fuse if there's a short between those points. If there's a short here, excessive current will be going through both fuses, and one of them has to blow before the other. It could have just happened to be your fuse-box fuse.

I'd advise you to leave the inline fuse at 20 amps rather than lowering its amperage to say 15 and then having it blow for the simple reason that maybe it has between 15 and 20 amps running through it. Unlikely, but why open the door. As long as the wiring you installed can handle 20 amps, just leave it.

You said you hooked up the lights 2 months ago, maybe a wire has been rubbing on a sharp corner somewhere. Look for the simple stuff first, that's one of my mottos. Based on Kubota reliablity and the relatively low hours on your machine, I'd bet it's not the fuel solenoid.

If your lights had been on at the time, or even for a very short time, I might have speculated that a sticking solenoid might have been putting a constant load on a circuit that was designed to take a constant load from your lights but only an intermittent load from your solenoid. If the fuses are slow-acting, this might be a plausible explanation, but again, only if your lights had been on - or at least for a long enough time to blow a slow-acting fuse.

Anyway, I'd stick with the simple stuff. Please let me know if you find any shorts in your new wiring, as I'm always eager to know whether or not I'm completely full of cr*p - sometimes it's hard to tell /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[David_Kb7uns]

Have BX-2230 later series and when you turn the key off it turns on a timed relay that activates the fuel shutoff solenoid. It is located on top of injection pump and you can move the plunger by hand to turn the tractor off also.

David

 

[Volfandt]

There are two reasons why I think it's advisable to change out the inline fuse he added to his light circuit to a smaller size.

1) To isolate his problem. He's wired in an additional load to his existing 20 amp circuit that also controls his fuel shutoff. If this inline fuse is a slo-blow 20 amp fuse it will never blow before the surge bypasses it and blows the tractors 20 amp fuse. I would much rather loose my added-on lights then not being able to shut my engine down.

2) To keep the power surges from damaging the other electrics that are in that same circuit. Fuses are always sized larger than the max load one expects a circuit to draw as many electrical devices will cause a temp surge when they are initially energized. A seperate smaller fuse on the add-on will keep these additional surges out of the tractors 20amp circuit.

If he changes out to a smaller in-line fuse and this continually blows then #1 his tractor's 20 amp curcuit will still be isolated and functional plus he now knows what circuit he then needs to troubleshoot and repair.

Gotta get
Volfandt

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Volfandt - There's a heck of a lot to what you just said. I wasn't thinking too clearly on that part of the equation. You are absolutely correct, best to make the inline fuse an amperage that will just handle the load of the lights, and no more. That way, as you said, a problem in the light circuit will blow the light fuse and not the fuse-box fuse.

My money's still on an intermittent short in the lighting circuit, and again, as you said, continued popping of the smaller aux lighting inline fuse would certainly help to locate the problem.

Sorry I didn't grasp the merits of your suggestion.

John D.

 

[Volfandt]

I think your right about the possibility of a wire rubbing somewhere or getting pinched in the lighting circuit.
A major part of troubleshooting is reproducing the intermittent problem. The easy fix's are the ones that stay broke /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Volfandt

 

[escavader]

Ok folks,ill switch that inline to 15 amp.will that run them 3 lights,they are themnorthern tractor lights?
Next Question,when one of you said slow burning fuse,could this have happened over time?
no.i haddent washed the tractor when this had happened ,but i left it out ,in below freezing temperatures,was too tired to remove from trailer,after chipping all day.
I used the tractor again for a couple hours this morning,no problems
I dont understand what could be wrong,with these lights,i dotted all my eyes...etc,wiring grommets and the works,i regret now not going to a direct off the battery curcuit.I dont think KUBOTA should have had any thing else wired to that aux circuit.
Once again im interested in what you think about that slow burning fuse thing.I never turned all three lights on at a time,only for a brief minute,could this be possible.
Forgot to mention,when this happened i couldnt even stall the tractor ,by starting the pto,in gear,and with the seat forward...them electrics are on that circuit too,AS MENTIONED ABOVE
ALAN

 

[Volfandt]

You say you have 3 lights on the circuit. If they are those 55 watt Northern lights then 55watts * 3 = 165 watts divided by 12volts = 13.75 amps so a 15 amp fuse should be fine. That is if'n my cipher'n is correct /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We use alot of slow-blow fuses in the electronic eqt we service. Basically a slow-blow fuse doesn't blow immediately, say like on a monentary one time surge that is just above it's rateing, it takes an extended surge such as whats produced by many surges in a short period of time or a shorted circuit.
Most automotive type fuses are immediate blow. That is a monentary surge over the fuses rating will blow it.

I will add that I've changed out blown out fuses and never had to do any additional repair. What caused the fuse to blow? A surge more than likely since no other repair was necessary. We've had discussions about fuses weakening after so many "hits" but I have no evidence to prove it.

Good luck
Volfandt

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

I dont think KUBOTA should have had any thing else wired to that aux circuit

Alan: You could be on to something. Maybe we're in an incorrect mindset that Kubota can do no wrong. If your lights are 55 watts, then that's 4.6 amps each, times 3 is almost 14 amps if you ever did turn them all on at once. Maybe that's too much for that circuit when you add in the fuel solenoid.

I was thinking short circuit because you never had the lights on, or at least not all at the same time. If the circuit did have too many amps on it, with everything turned on at once, then the fuse-box fuse might blow because it would be carrying the load of the lights plus the fuel solenoid, but the inline fuse wouldn't because it would be handling just the load of the lights.

I don't think you need to concern yourself with the slow-blow thing, it was just conjecture on my part that maybe the fuse-box fuse is of that type because of the type of current draw that I think the solenoid might put on the circuit - a quick surge that levels off. But then again, I might be talking straight out of my butt - wouldn't be the first time, but I try to keep it to a minimum.

When you asked about whether the slow-blow fuse thing could mean that the problem happened over time, I'd say no - my understanding is that slow-blow means just a matter of seconds longer than a normal fuse. Long enough for a momentary power surge to subside.

Anyway, maybe just wait to see if you ever have the problem again. If you do, look again at the simple stuff like bare spots on wires, a faulty switch that's allowing current to go to ground, or maybe the lights themselves.

Good luck and please let us know if it happens again - I'll load up a .410 with some gremlin-shot and we'll do some huntin'.

Take care, John

 

[v8dave]

The starting or in-rush current on a light bulb is greater than the normal operating current. So I'd expect that three lights in parallel drawing close to the rating of a fuse will eventually blow that fuse unless it's a slow blow fuse.

Also, figure out how to smother the engine to stop it. Some Diesel engines actually "turn off" by blocking the air passage. Don't use your hand, use a block of wood to block the air intake. Check out the air filter intake and see if a block of wood will fit flat across the opening. If so, use that to stop the engine should this happen again.

It won't suck more than 14.7 pounds per square inch of intake area. That's not enought to kill you. But it'll scare the heck out of you when it sucks your hand across the opening. It happened to me accidentally on a Diesel truck I had. You'll do more damage jerking your hand out than the suction is likely to do--believe me you'll really react strongly to get your hand out of there. Lots of other moving parts to be wary of when you're not thinking and just reacting.

 

[escavader]

Thanks all you guys,for helping me try to figure this out.I do believe that,it could have been some freak thing because its not bothering now.I am going to put my inline down to a 15 amp,it might narrow things down if it ever crops up again.I just hate it when something like this happens,and you cant pinpoint it.I hate having"ghosts" in something i own.Although i have done a little hoe work ,and loader work after dark,the true test will be when i start pushing snowbanks with them on ,for hours at a time.
Another thing i thought of is the day before,i ran the chipper all day.I cram a shingle in the seat switch so i dont have to reverse the seat.Its far fetched but mabey i didnt have it in good and it was screwing up and weakened the fuse.....i dont even know what im trying to say....well that switch is on that circuit.ooh well time will tell.thanks again
ALAN