Coyote Attack!

thegreatrandini · Apr 21, 2005

I have lived my life out of town and out doors. I have never had a big problem with coyotes. Kitty cats often missing coyotes blamed but don't know. I lived out on a horse ranch in NorthEastern Colorado for a time. We lost a few chickens there. I used to just light fire crackers when I heard them in close and that ran them off. Science has proved that for the most part natural coyotes are pretty harmless. They eat mice, voles, and rats almost exclusively. Next time you kill one open it up if you don't believe me. Ferral dogs on the other hand are very dangerous to everything. Even in africa with Lions and Hyenas wild dogs rule. Jackals wich I think of as African coyotes (but are not) are mostly harmless. Coyote/dog crosses are not very common and are very dangerous. Foxes will attack anything if they are cornered. Foxes eat cats too. Natural coyotees seldom attack anything except mice, rabbits, and rats etc.... They will kill fawns and sheep are an easy meal. They will kill a helpless calf etc....Donkeys llamas and alpaccas will eliminate that problem in a fenced area. Great pyrenees and komadores are effective at guarding sheep. Irish wolf hounds can run down and kill coyotes or coy dogs. Dogs and wolfs use the pack tactics effectivly but natural coyotes don't hunt in packs as often. They are opportunist. Coydogs are actually a cross of dog and wolf but time has changed that to mean any cross. The problem with coyotes is that a given amount of land will support a given population. If you kill the existing coyotes others move in. If you kill an older pair then a younger more productive pair moves in. If a young pair have a large litter and no helpers they will be more likely to prey upon larger game or livestock. They are trying to feed the kids. If you kill off some them more pups may survive because food is move plentiful. Most pups die. That is the truth of it. Your best situation is an older dominate pair with a few helpers. The older pair will not produce many pups and will make it very hard for competing families to survive in your area. Once in a while people do get attacked by coyotes or coyote appearing animals. Children have been killed by them. If you are a rancher with live stock you have to keep a balance. You can not totally remove them. You have to take action if they are killing your stock. If there is an aggresive preditor of any kind looming where you live it is best to remove that individual. That don't mean "shoot all coyotes on sight". You can worsen your problem. If you have some established individuals in your area that you can get along with then that is your best senario. If you kill them worse will probably come. A family of "good" coyotes will keep others out of the area. If you just live out in the country then light some firecrakers if you hear them close in.....If you have a big ranch then you already that you need a good balance....And unless you have a big ranch (last and most important) if you love your dog.....don't let it run loose.......A coyote is not going to like being in a fenced off dogs territory......You have little to worry about.....I am so tired of yahoos moving out into the country on 5 or so acres and just letting there dogs run. This is a much bigger problem then the coyotes.......

DocHeb · Apr 21, 2005

( I am so tired of yahoos moving out into the country on 5 or so acres and just letting there dogs run)

I was unaware that all those roaming dogs were the result of those darn displaced city dwellers. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

But wait, in A good neighbor-Opions Please , we were told "get used to roaming dogs - that's the way us country folk do things", "quit being an uptight displaced city dweller." {paraphrased}

I am so confused!!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Freds · Apr 21, 2005

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif too much, Doc! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I saw my first coyote last Saturday or Sunday morning. It was trotting from the front corner of my field diagonally towards the back corner, in the direction of where someone's small dog was attacked by one a month ago. They've been rumored to be in the area and the guy up the road 1/2 mile has seen 3-4 running together when working in his vineyards.

I'm kind of wondering if the idea isn't to get rid of them before they get a good foothold and before you become complacent to keep a couple "good ones" around... At least in areas where the neighbors don't all own several hundred or thousand acres.

R_A_Schwartz · Apr 21, 2005

I lived in centeral Minnesota for years before moving away and am now in southern MN. We had quite a few coyotes in the area, but I've never heard of any one saying keep a good pair/familly around. I always liked the sound of the coyotes singing at night, but if seen they were concidered a target. I don't think you can get rid of all of them by shooting the ones you see, if that were true they would have gone extinct years ago. You know the saying sly as a fox, it probabbly should be sly as a coyote. The coyotes are very good at being undetected until their numbers start to climb, like a mouse in the house, if you see one, you more than likely have many more.
The things I noticed were, when the numbers of coyotes were up, you didn't see a red fox any where. the fox and coyotes compete for the same small animals so they run/kill the foxes to eliminate the compition. When the timber wolves moved back into the area, they drove out/killed off the coyotes, again because they also are competing for the same food. the red fox moved back into the area to keep the smaller animals, mice, voles in check.
The other thing I noticed were the local people not liking the timber wolves because of their size and the damage they could do to the livestock, guess what happened, they had less problems with the wolves than the coyotes.
just my random ramblings

thegreatrandini · Apr 22, 2005

I see what ya mean. I can tell ya that in my area some folks move out to country "so the dogs can run". A large dog can easily roam 10 square miles. When all the country folk use to have say a quarter section or more. (160 acres) Dogs just roamed, they worked everyday and farmers and ranchers tended to support only a few. When you get folks moving out on 3 acres or so and most have a dog or two it is just more crowded. So if just a few of them let the dogs run "it sucks"..
I see your point and I don't mean to generalize all "displaced city dwellers". My point is that if you love your dog keep it at home.....Nothing but trouble awaits a dog off his property. Trouble may be from coyote etc.. or man.....(cars, guns, poisons etc....)-

thegreatrandini · Apr 22, 2005

If the ones you see are part of an older alpha pair then by shooting them you open up the territory for younger more reproductive pairs and you get more coyotes not less. The coyotes which replace the ones you shoot maybe more aggresive. This is what I am saying.......I forget who did this research but it is on the net........There is a 70 percent rule. If you can decrease them by 70 percent it takes them awhile to comeback......So if you are a rancher you steward your thousands of acres accordingly. Those of us who just live out of town can only really fend off the coyotes who are offensive. If you see an agressive coyote then it be best if you shoot it.....If you just see coyotes out just doing normal coyote things it could make it worse if you shoot them....

hobbyfarm · Apr 22, 2005

( Don't mess with coyotes ... shoot them. Obviously the ones who were around your dog weren't all that hungry or he would have been in a world of hurt. One guy around here let his 2 Dobermans out to chase off coyotes and only one came back and he was all torn to pieces. )

Yeah, over the years, I lost two good dogs to coyotes. One was tore up so bad, I had to shoot it. The other one, well, all I found were the ears and some intestines.

hobbyfarm · Apr 22, 2005

( I am so tired of yahoos moving out into the country on 5 or so acres and just letting there dogs run. This is a much bigger problem then the coyotes....... )

But what about the yahoo accountants on 8+ acres?? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

hobbyfarm · Apr 22, 2005

But seriously though, it's a good thing it's only coyotes and not bears or mluntain lions.

hobbyfarm · Apr 22, 2005

( Nothing but trouble awaits a dog off his property. )

Boy, that's the truth. In the early 90's south Texas had a rabies epidemic. Even the county officials asked for help in controlling the numbers of loose domestic animals. Basically, any loose dog was a target. For quite a while they even allowed spot-light hunting at night. Some local ranchers even offered a "bounty" for each pair of coyote ears turned in. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

HammerFour · Apr 22, 2005

Where I live we rarely see roaming dogs, if one is on our property I yell at it to leave and run it off, if it comes back it gets popped with the air rifle in the behind. They don't come back after that.

If one is to get aggressive with us or our animals, it will get shot.

Exception being the neighbors little terrier who chewed on my chickens last weekend, I was so close to squeezing the trigger on him as he had a mouthful of hen when I realized it was the neighbors little dog, so I didn't. I chased him down and swatted him off the hen, then returned him to the neighbors who were very apologetic and offered to pay any damages. So far the two hens who got chewed are healing ok, I put some antibiotic cream on the wounds.

So, I guess I make an exception for first offenders as long as I know the owners...or something like that.

Freds · Apr 22, 2005

That seems fair enough.
I'm going to be getting some chickens shortly and that's what I would tell my neighbor who lets his dog wander the neighborhood.
On the other hand, the coyote I just spotted has me locating the coop a little closer to the house than I first planned.

thegreatrandini · Apr 22, 2005

I am too dog friendly to shoot the offending dog but do think if I shoot the owner the dog will quit *** in my yard and eating the cat food? Should I shoot them with the bb gun, the .357 or the .44 mag?

thegreatrandini · Apr 22, 2005

But what about the yahoo accountants on 8+ acres?? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

Yes, them too.. They should take proper care of animals! One note here my wife is a veterinarian....and she has a bunch of farm land in the middle of Kansas. She is truly a farm girl. I was always the "hired hand type" until I went to school so I could quit working for a living. I will tell ya that if you have dogs in ranch country the ranchers will tell that if they see your dog off your property that they will shoot it...

hobbyfarm · Apr 22, 2005

( ...the ranchers will tell that if they see your dog off your property that they will shoot it... )

That's the truth!! All our family (aunts & uncles) are ranchers and farmers and anything that gets in the pastures where young calves are is a target.

TBAR · Apr 24, 2005

Time for a government trapper with some M-44 devices.

Tbar

SPIKER · Apr 25, 2005

I didn't see anyone posting about the attack in northenr ohio again but they reported this past week that the offending coyote did infact have rabies and testing of several others also came back pssitive /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif not a good sign: the late winter storm may have helped them as we had ~8" of snow over the weekend... turkey season is in right now and that will put more hunters in the woods with them... also some 86 yr old guy was attacked by 3 dogs and killed (died after a week in hosp[ital... the dogs were 2 pit bulls and something else all large meaner dogs the guy was on his own property minding his own buisness as reported on news...

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif one reason I like to take SOMETHING along with me when ever I;m in the woods be it a gun or my trusty machette which I used a bunch just today... snow & mid 20's all weekend and today it was 60... go figure

"in Ohio if ya dont like the weather just wait 10 min it will change!"

MarkM

Electric_City · Apr 25, 2005

I love all animals that are not a threat to me or my family.

But I have a thing about property rights.If I own it I really should have some say as to whats on it-two leggs or four.

Whether I come from the city or not.I did pay for it, I might be alot more protective of it based on my experiences.But again I did pay for it no one else did.

I do not tell anyone else what to do with their property and I would think they would not expect me to do what ever they want on mine.

Electric_City · Apr 25, 2005

Should I have to buy more land to live in peace or should they buy more to do what they want??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

MicroPilot · Apr 25, 2005

I was reading this thread last night, and stepped out to have a smoke. I had no sooner lit up than I heard 3 or maybe 4 coytoes howling. Close by, maybe a quater mile away on the other side of the valley. Then a whole bunch started yapping. This went on for about 4 minutes. then all was quiet except a dog barking over in the direction that the coyotes were howling.

I've heard them before, in the same general direction/area. Just hadn't heard them since last winter.