Cracked Bell-Housing AFTER NH Tranny Fix

[jinman]

Re: My story on tranny recall...

<font color=blue>What are symptoms of bad thermostat bug that are different from the block / radiator hose problem?</font color=blue>

I put a valve in my bypass line and the temperature still didn't get into the green operating range no matter how long I ran my tractor.

My dealer's service mgr told me to disconnect the wire to the thermostat with the ignition turned on (don't start the engine) and ground the lead while watching the temperture gage. If the gage goes to near maximum, all is well with the wiring and instrument cluster. It could only be the temperature sensor or the thermostat. In my case, it was the thermostat as you can see in the previous picture.

 

[wihakowiSteve]

Re: My story on tranny recall...

The Saga Continues! I went out yesterday to start up the tractor and no matter how much I tried to "jiggle" it into neutral and was sure I had the brakes on, was sitiing on the seat and had the pto disengaged -- it simply wouldn't start! Shop sent a mechanic out - he was going to come anyway to look at temp gauge - and disassembled the entire range shifter linkage and lubed it up and got neutral switch to engage so that machine would start.
He tore apart dash and troble-shot the temp gauge all the way from sensor to gauge and finally determined that gauge was NFG (Murphy's Law re: last and easiest to thing to check = problem)! Ordered a new one that apparently can be replaced simply by removing the faceplate. A lot of work that will be avoided in the actual replacement!

Service guy mentioned a couple of interesting things. The actual switch for the neutral position is internal in the tranny assembly not outside like the brake switch or other safety switches meaning if it starts to act up, it isn't necessarily a easy fix.
In regards to the cool running engines, he also mentioned that the engine manufacturer was who designed the "bypass loop" beween the block and the radiator and "required" NH to keep it for so long. His feeling was that during cold weather running, the bypass probably provided enough to circulation to cool the engine and the regular "big" hoses really overkill. He thought that during warmer weather, the bypass wasn't needed (as we now know) because the radiator is so massive on the Boomers that cooling didn't ever seem to be problem. What I gathered from the discussion was basically that, by design, the Boomers run cool. Whether that is good or not will no doubt be debated on and on.
Anyway, my Boomer is up and running again and MY DEALER HAS BEEN A PRINCE. Hope this is the end of this adventure!
Steve

 

[jinman]

Running cool

Steve,
I don't think I'd want to run my tractor cool no matter what the dealer says. Your engine's tolerances are calculated with the engine within the operating range of around 160º to 180º and although you may never experience a problem, the wear on your close tolerance parts and cylinder walls will be increased. In theory, I guess you could use a super-lubricant which might overcome this issue, but it seems so easy to make these tractors perform like they are designed that I'm not sure why dealers even make an issue of it. In my opinion, the story about the engine manufacturer is pretty lame. For any of us who, on a cold night, drained the radiator on an old Ford tractor and forgot to drain the block, the purpose of the hose to the drain petcock is obvious. You can't drain one without draining the other. It's funny, because one of the "solutions" to this problem has been to essentially go back to a dual drain setup, effectively defeating the "convenient" single drain. With a cutoff valve in the drain line and a fixed and functioning thermostat, my tractor now runs right in the middle of the green, and I'm confident that's where the engineers intended it to run. Again, in my opinion, anything else is just an excuse for a malfunction.

Regarding the neutral switch...
While I had my tractor apart repairing the broken hydro pedal linkage, I bypassed the neutral switch and parking brake switch both with short alligator clip jumpers. It's not something you'd want to do permanently, but if you are certain the tractor is in neutral and want to check if the switch is malfunctioning, jumpering around the switch is a good troubleshooting method.

 

[rmorgan]

Re: My story on tranny recall...

Steve--

Midway through a full day's off-and-on use today, I noticed the temp gauge on my 33D bottomed out. The hood, radiator, etc. all felt normal. Seems like that would have to be sensor, rather than thermostat (fairly warm day here, and several hours' use). Can you ID the location of the sensor for me so I can check in in the morning (assuming it's in the same place as on the 35) to see if it worked or pulled loose? By the way, I hadn't followed this thread until tonight--really glad everything's working out for you with NH.

 

[wihakowiSteve]

Re: My story on tranny recall...

rmorgan, the sensor is near the front of the engine on top of what I believe would be the thermostat housing. Only wire coming off a plug in that general area.

As far as jumping the neutral switch is concerned, I would worry that I would screw up and try to start it in gear or when I wasn't supposed to. Don't know what damage could happen by attempting to start it while in range?! I haven't had the luxory of driving too many quiet cars but when I have, I have tried to start an already running engine! Not a nice sound or thought about what it is doing to the flywheel. He did say -- very, very off the record -- that disconnecting (jumping) the seat override switch was the best thing a person could do!!

As far as cool running engines (sounds like a movie about Jamaican tractors!), I, too, do not like to run 'em that way. Perhaps what the service guy was saying was that the manufacturer's initial response to the problem was to leave it as-is ("what do you mean there's a problem, can't be!"). He did not say that he was comfortable with it running cool nor did he think it was a good thing! Interestingly enough, after using ther tractor several hours yesterday, the gauge all of a sudden seemed to start working, showing temp in mid green range. Will still change it out when new one comes in.

He also spent a long time explaining the need for high rpms for torque and power reasons unrelated to not running the engine cool. Gave a great analogy to flying helicopters (I'm guessing he does/did) - You need high rpms for maximum pressure and power before you even think about leaving the ground - it's the only thing that makes them work!!

Wind 'er up! Steve

 

[djradz]

Re: My story on tranny recall...

Rick, it is very difficult to tell if the engine is "normal" just by observation. In fact, operating at the correct temperature, the engine should in fact feel hot! 180-190 degrees F is hot! Think of you car engine, you would not lay your hands on any part of the block, radiator or other part once it had come up to temperature, nor should you be able to do that to the tractor engine. I'm just suggesting that your sensor might be just fine and that you have one of the two problems causing a cold running engine. If you really want to check it, pull the sensor out, reattach the wire and put it in very hot water along with a thermometer. With the thermometer in the 180-190 range the tractor meter should read about in the middle. To do this, you will have to put a small wire from the thread area of the sensor to the tractor ground, with something like a jumper cable or smaller wire with clips, but that should be it. Turn the tractor on but don't start it. Good Luck.