Craftsmen Who Work With Their Hands

[brain55]

My era of graduates from HS were nearly the last around here to get vocational training. We had ROP (Regional Occupation Programs) that included classes like Auto Repair, Auto Body & Paint, and even Meat Cutting on top of the usual wood shop, metal shop, and basic electronics. Though I had the intelligence for college I lacked the grades and desire. I choose to go to automotive trade school instead. Back in 1985 they were touting $80k a year for their graduates. I had common sense enough to know most weren't going to make that and I was prepared to pay my dues. I graduated on a Friday and had a job Tuesday making a whole $4/hr when minimum wage was $3.35. The job came with some perks. I didn't need to fork out a pile of money right off the bat for tools, I was able to work out of the boss's toolbox since he decided it was time for him to move behind the desk. I tell people I'll likely never get rich turning a wrench but I won't likely go hungry either. There are times where I wish I had gone the college route but can't really complain much about where I'm at.

Brian

 

[KiotiKowboy]

There are an awful lot of degrees out there working in restaurants and retail. The fact is, in this disastrous US economy, a "skill" is more useful than a "degree." Not everyone needs a computer network engineer - but - everyone does eventually need a mechanic, a plumber or a carpenter. I've known a number of "professional students" who simply stayed in college because jobs in their field were scarce.

 

[dave1949]

The school district I teach at just built a new "vo-tech" building, its a thing of beauty. We added 9 new programs and are looking to expand them. There is talk about letting middle school students take electives in the vo-tech area if there is room for them.

Not knocking this, but the thought crossed my mind, how many graduates of vocational schools are working in their field of study five years later? I've seen stats regarding that for college grads, but not vocational school grads.

One of my nephews attended a nice, modern vocational school. He was in the fire fighting/first responder program and did well. After graduating he joined the Air Force and now he is driving all sorts of vehicles, buses, trucks, forklifts, whatever the AF needs to move people and cargo around their bases. Who knows if he will ever be a fire fighter or EMT.

 

[dave1949]

I think you might be on to something. Teachers (acedemia) are a big influence. Maybe not always the best either. Very interesting perspective to view from.

I see a lot of "Old School' posters here, telling of their experiences from 40 years ago. Unfortunately "The times are changing"... past tense.

It's a lot less work with the same rewards to jump on the government dole.... so why not let somebody else put in the effort.

Boomer generation (those with the old school 40 year-old experiences ) teachers are often products of upward mobility. They were often the first generation in their blue-collar families to attend college. What they know and lived is it worked for them. Among those who are employed, a college degree is still an economic benefit. I taught for six years and moved on to other stuff. That education degree was still helpful as a door opener.

So, if you are a teacher and you recognize academic ability in a student, you encourage that ability. That is a teacher's job after all. That isn't the same as saying "you shouldn't be a plumber," or, "you should be a rocket scientist." The great majority of teachers are not going to have a chance to encourage hand craftsmanship and trade skills unless they encounter it in some extracurricular or community-based activity.

Teachers also run across bright kids from not so bright families that need guidance if they are to utilize their given talents--to make upward mobility a reality. Here again, a teacher isn't likely to know much about a student's talents beyond their academic abilities or sports.

Yes, times have changed. Outsourcing and globalization, automation and such have eroded the job market for those at all education levels and skill sets.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Boomer generation (those with the old school 40 year-old experiences ) teachers are often products of upward mobility. They were often the first generation in their blue-collar families to attend college. What they know and lived is it worked for them. Among those who are employed, a college degree is still an economic benefit. I taught for six years and moved on to other stuff. That education degree was still helpful as a door opener.

So, if you are a teacher and you recognize academic ability in a student, you encourage that ability. That is a teacher's job after all. That isn't the same as saying "you shouldn't be a plumber," or, "you should be a rocket scientist." The great majority of teachers are not going to have a chance to encourage hand craftsmanship and trade skills unless they encounter it in some extracurricular or community-based activity.

Teachers also run across bright kids from not so bright families that need guidance if they are to utilize their given talents--to make upward mobility a reality. Here again, a teacher isn't likely to know much about a student's talents beyond their academic abilities or sports.

Yes, times have changed. Outsourcing and globalization, automation and such have eroded the job market for those at all education levels and skill sets.

Very true. Another thing I hadn't considered; when I was growing up in the 50's, times were pretty hard. Skilled craftsmen and tradesmen weren't making a lot of money, including my Dad who was the Superintendent at a commercial sand plant. The folks who dressed nice, drove nice cars and seemed to have the respect of the community were the teachers, pharmacists, a few well-to-do farmers and some other business people.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Duplicate post

 

[forgeblast]

how many graduates of vocational schools are working in their field of study five years later?
this is an Old study almost 20 years old but....During the summer of 1990, about one-half of all employed postsecondary vocational completers aged 18-34 worked in a field related to their training (table 111). Training-related employment appeared to make no difference in the constancy with which postsecondary vocational completers were employed between the summer of 1990 and the winter of 1992 (table 112).(47
Vocational Education in the US
in 2013 it was about 26%
The Return of Vocational High Schools: More Options or the Kiss of Death? - US News


I did see that even with votech training in high school there is still secondary training that many will have to take. We have a local college called Johnson College Johnson College of Technology | and it is a tech college.

 

[QueBota]

Most of the construction/trade related unions in the DC metro area have apprenticeship "schools" for folks that are interested. They have a hard time getting people to enter the program. Granted, the pay isn't great for the first year and often involves some classroom time evenings/weekends; however, once you make it through the program you are only limited by your desire and ability.

Q

Some of you guys talk about getting a apprenticeship - how does one do that? In my experience, getting a apprenticeship is harder than getting into a very good college. The only apprenticeships I've seen are union jobs, and they are pretty scarce these days. I can't think of a single non union job with a pension, unless it's a elected position. You never hear of a non union company that has job training. And the taxpayer's aren't real keen on setting up vocational schools.

 

[sld]

One thing to keep in mind is, generally, the current generation of 20-30 year olds do not want to work very hard for what they get.

Learning a trade can be hard work that pays off later.

 

[Taylortractornut]

I took metal shop 4 years is hs both welding and machining and 2 years of machine shop in college. I had a great teacher back then that pushed us hard. My last year the my it to where you could only take vo tech 3 years and no class over 2 years. After I graduated they closed most of Votech no more ag shop, building trades, Heating AC and Refer. Its just welding and body and fender and auto trade. I didnt like working inside so I fell back on heavy equipment and trucks. Didnt have a student loan I think my whole college tuition was 5k. I didnt have a degree but never stopped me from work.

I one thing I notice thats going away with kids and young adults is the pride in their workmanship. I was taught at an early age what ever you do whether its flipping burgers or building something do the best you can and be happy about it. I manage a rubbish landfill now and have alot going on I do most of the mechanic work and most of the site work. We even do the home office's paving. I get workers in now that are out of HS or college and they are amazed at some of the things we do in the shop at work. I usually dont think anything about it or I ll tell them you should see so and so they re a lot better.