Culvert Pipe Quandry

[Claire Knowles]

Making a very long story short, I own a private road with a 24" round polymer coated culvert pipe underneath it; the pipe is 24 feet long, and is only covered with a foot of dirt roadway. My question is...how much weight can that pipe withstand before it gives? Loaded dump trucks? Loaded tractor trailers? I am worried that the pipe will give in because of all the weight going across it, and I'll be stuck paying the bill to install a new one. I've looked this all up on-line, but since I don't have a clue about algebra, I can't figure out the ratio. Can anybody give me at least a close guess as to the weight capacity of the pipe?

 

[GolfAddict]

For what it's worth, what I've heard is that you should have 50% of the diameter of the culvert. So, having 1 foot of road above your 24 inch culvert is plenty to hold up to most any traffic.

Again, that's just the rule of thumb I've heard. Hopefully those more knowledgable will chime in.

 

[RDrancher]

If you're referring to HDPE corrugated polymer pipe, a 24" pipe requires 12" minimum cover if it's going to be used under asphalt pavement, 12" minimum including pavement thickness for concrete, or 18" minimum if the surface material is dirt or gravel. Strength depends on proper pipe bedding and compaction (starting with the bedding below the pipe.) It depends on what type of material was used too. Will your pipe support repeated loads from dump trucks or semi's?...maybe. If the pipe will be seeing these loads only during construction, I'd place a couple feet of temporary compacted fill above what you already have during construction and then cut it to grade after.

 

[s219]

You should be fine. With enough cover that is properly bedded and compacted, the pipe only sees hoop stresses (like an arch). It doesn't really carry the direct load.

I have a 15" plastic culvert pipe with about 12" fill over the top, which I installed myself (there's a thread on here with photos). We've had concrete trucks and the like come through with zero problems.

The 50% rule of thumb is a good one to use. Some states have additional guidelines depending on the pipe's material and type of fill or road cover. I followed my state (VDOT) specs, since the culvert had to be approved by the county road department. You should be able to lookup culvert specs for your state.

If in doubt, you can increase the load capacity of the crossing by adding more cover over the top of the pipe.

 

[Briana03]

Welcome to TractorByNet!

We moved your thread to the Related Topics forum.

 

[vtsnowedin]

A 24 inch polymer coated pipe? What is coated ? steel? Aluminum? What kind of "polymer" and how thick is the coating and how thick ( ie. what gauge is is the material that is coated) ? Anything new should have some printing some where that gives an ASTM or AASHTO spec that it meets. Google that and you can find what loads it can take and what cover and backfill you need to make it work.

 

[Claire Knowles]

Thanks so much for your input on my pipe problem...guess I should have been more specific on the pipe. It's corrugated steel with a polymer covering, and was put in with no bedding under it, just in a dug out ditch. It was covered with fill dirt, then smoothed out. I would venture to guess the dirt is now compacted from the traffic that travels our dirt road. The pipe sticks out from under the road 8" on one side and about 18" on the other side. My problem is that there is a lot of acreage behind us, and there is talk of building a small development, which the only access to is through our privately owned road. I just don't know if the shabbily installed pipe will handle the literal tons of traffic and materials without causing the pipe to collapse. Thanks so much for any insight you can give me.

 

[vtsnowedin]

A steel culvert will be fine as installed if you gravel the road above it another eight to twelve inches. The extra cover spreads the loads of the truck tires to the earth on either side of the trench reducing the load on the pipe. You should be able to keep sixteen feet wide of travel way over the pipe with the shoulders sloping down three H to one V each side. A few well placed field stones placed beside and over the culvert ends will help hold the fill from washing down into the ditch. A good job for a tractor and loader.

 

[dmccarty]

Thanks so much for your input on my pipe problem...guess I should have been more specific on the pipe. It's corrugated steel with a polymer covering, and was put in with no bedding under it, just in a dug out ditch. It was covered with fill dirt, then smoothed out. I would venture to guess the dirt is now compacted from the traffic that travels our dirt road. The pipe sticks out from under the road 8" on one side and about 18" on the other side. My problem is that there is a lot of acreage behind us, and there is talk of building a small development, which the only access to is through our privately owned road. I just don't know if the shabbily installed pipe will handle the literal tons of traffic and materials without causing the pipe to collapse. Thanks so much for any insight you can give me.

I have plastic pipe under our driveway that I was given for free. I think it is 15-18 inches and I have a foot or two of ABC gravel over it. I put the pipe down on grade and build the driveway over the culvert. The culvert held up just fine to all of the construction traffic at the house including cement trucks.

I would hope that the development that needs access will also be paying for any damages done on the easement that provides them access. Or paying to improve access. What does the deed say about the easement and who is responsible for maintenance?

Later,
Dan

 

[dave1949]

Yes Claire, as Dan said the road care shouldn't fall on you if more people begin using it.

Assuming it is a legal private road intended to serve you and whatever gets built beyond you, there should be a formal arrangement for who pays what percentage of the upkeep. We have Road Associations here in Maine which have strong state law backing--including being able to put a lien on a property for non-payment of their share of road costs.

The private road I used to live on set the cost shares proportional to the amount of road used. The properties furthest from the town road paid the most. That is logical because they are the ones using the road the most.

 

[Threepoint]

[snip]
I would hope that the development that needs access will also be paying for any damages done on the easement that provides them access. Or paying to improve access. What does the deed say about the easement and who is responsible for maintenance?[snip]

+1 on this. Rights and obligations regarding ingress/egress are determined by individual state law, but are pretty well settled on this kind of thing. Look first to your deed (and any other relevant source of contractual obligations, e.g., a landowners or homeowners association agreement). Assuming that the culvert is adequate for current ingress/egress needs, it would be unusual for you to be required to improve it to meet the needs of new subdivision construction. Absent something to the contrary in the existing documents, it's likely that the developer will be the party required to bear the cost of any improvement necessary to support the construction without damage to your property. That is also assuming that the subdivision usage is within the purpose of the easement to begin with. If the easement cannot reasonably be construed to permit such use, then he/she has an additional concern.

 

[RDrancher]

The only thing I would be concerned about with a corrugated steel pipe is repeated compaction in the center. That could lead to the ends being forced upwards. You may want to suggest installing precast concrete ends to stop it.

Very good advice in the previous posts.

 

[Claire Knowles]

Thank you all for great advice! I looked at my deed, and there is no recorded easement or right-of-way to the 3500 acres behind me, which leads me to believe that if I let this happen, I will be responsible for my road damage. I was thinking of putting up a weight limit sign, but trying to enforce it? This really IS a culvert pipe quandary!!

 

[Jisgren]

Thank you all for great advice! I looked at my deed, and there is no recorded easement or right-of-way to the 3500 acres behind me, which leads me to believe that if I let this happen, I will be responsible for my road damage. I was thinking of putting up a weight limit sign, but trying to enforce it? This really IS a culvert pipe quandary!!

I am not a lawyer, and things are different in each state, but if there is no easement then they should have no right to use the road. If you choose to let them use it you should negotiate an easement that includes payment to you as well as specifies that the developer will pay for and improvements or damage to the road.

I would not just let them use the road without compensation and rules.

 

[fordmantpw]

I am not a lawyer, and things are different in each state, but if there is no easement then they should have no right to use the road. If you choose to let them use it you should negotiate an easement that includes payment to you as well as specifies that the developer will pay for and improvements or damage to the road.

I would not just let them use the road without compensation and rules.

Agreed! Or, better yet, sell them the land that the road is on (if that is possible) for a nice price. Because, in effect, without that road, there development doesn't happen (unless they have another way in). If they have another way in, then there's no way I'd let them on my road. From my experience with people these days, it will never work out well for you if you do let them use it.

Just my $0.02.

 

[s219]

If there is no easement, I'd put up a gate. That will probably nudge them into asking nicely or taking proper legal avenues. No question they should negotiate a proper easement and expect to pay. It's only fair.

 

[s219]

And actually, make sure to look at the plat. That would be the clearest indicator of any easements. Not sure if deeds always cover that (could be in the other property's deed). For instance, I know for a fact my land deed does not mention utility easements, but they do exist on the property.

 

[dmccarty]

Thank you all for great advice! I looked at my deed, and there is no recorded easement or right-of-way to the 3500 acres behind me, which leads me to believe that if I let this happen, I will be responsible for my road damage. I was thinking of putting up a weight limit sign, but trying to enforce it? This really IS a culvert pipe quandary!!

I would check your county's GIS office, ie, go look at the plats(maps) of your place and the 3,500 acres behind you. I would pull their deed as well and see what it says. The deeds can be found in the county deeds office. This might give you more information. We have an easement on our place for the power company, I can't remember if I had to sign an easement for phone service, and these are the only easements I would allow. No way would I allow someone to use my land to access theirs since this is just asking for big trouble. TBN is full of these problems including the infamous MBarb thread from decades ago.

Just Say No To Easements. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Certainly, if the developer approaches you about the easement, and says there is one, ask for proof. I would verify the documentation and go talk to a lawyer. It is one thing to have an easement for farming, timber operations, and/or family recreation but a 3,500 acre development is a new ball game. A developer bought a lot in a subdivision to our front and tried to use it to access his 50-100 acres via that lot. The HOA stopped this from happening.

If you are so inclined to provide access, sell them the land and be done with it.

Later,
Dan

 

[Claire Knowles]

You've all been so great and informative with your replies to the fix I'm in, so I'm gonna fill you all in on the rather long story. The land behind me belongs to the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Indians (in trust to them from the U.S. government). When I bought this house 11 years ago, I paid cash as I had inherited my parents house and sold that. I never had the property surveyed, but have come to find out I don't own the very bottom of my 325' long driveway, (about 100 square feet). THAT belongs to the tribe. I was actually taken away in handcuffs for clearing dirt and rocks out of the driveway, yet they use the property I own to come and go at their leisure. I have offered to sell them the whole property or subdivide the property so they could purchase the road, but they won't part with a penny. I can't even sell the house as I don't own the legal access. I've tried the title company, an attorney, letters, etc. all to no avail. I've looked into having another driveway added that bypasses "their property", but the cost is between $50,000 and $60,000 due to the lay of the land. (I live on a very steep mountainside). I really have thought this out in every direction possible, but I'm hoping fresh eyes might have a new idea or two. Thank you all for all your help!! Claire

 

[ovrszd]

I run a road grader and maintain 50 miles of gravel roads. I've installed dozens of culverts over the past 25 years. I never use any type of fill material. Always install with dirt out of the hole. I used to install galvanized culverts. For the past 20 years I've only installed plastic dual wall culverts. I've got some steel and plastic that don't have more than 6" of dirt over them. I've never had one crush. In your case, with this being an old culvert, you ain't gonna crush it with any load that's legal to be on the road. Mine get crossed with huge AG equipment as well as semi grain trucks so full you can see the grain in the trailers. No worries at all.

In regards to your property issue. Is there an easement for you to access your property across theirs?? Secondly, is there an easement for them to access their property thru yours?? This would be a registered document that's an attachment to your abstract. If not, you both are up the creek.