Culvert Updates

[Harv]

<font color=blue>Do you think you might need larger pipe?</font color=blue>

I would liked to have gone bigger on all three culverts, DFB, but aside from cost, you may have noticed that these water channels are very shallow. In order to use a larger diameter pipe, I would have had to create a small mountain for my tractor to climb over. If I've learned anything about compact tractors so far, it's that "flat and level" are the best way to go. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

<font color=blue>it looks like you used a lot of sand in the in-fill area?</font color=blue>

Actually, GlueGuy, it's a limestone crush which contains a lot of "fines". It's specifically called for in this type of application 'cuz it does just what you described. With proper tamping, it compacts down real solid, almost like concrete. Of course, that's just compression strength. Supports the pipe and the road itself like a champ, but aim a firehose or angry creek at it directly and it will wash away.

BTW - that was some bonafide constructive information in that post. Thanks for "taking the bait". /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

<font color=blue>didn't you say that you had to hurry on that third one</font color=blue>

Yeah, Gordon, that one was a rush job. It was the last day of that trip and the rains were on their way. I didn't think I cut any corners, but them blowholes tell the story. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

And as long as you brought it up, Bird, things are a-bloomin' out here, too. Not sure if I took any pictures that show it, but we've got grass and daffodils galore. Oh, yeah -- with one exception. The couple of acres I worked so hard on last year to keep the weeds down are looking pretty barren so far this year. I was apparently successful in spraying the weeds with Roundup before they had a chance to go to seed, and that seems to be making the job much easier now. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[jimmoore]

Bird, my yard grows up in clover in the spring also. God,I hate that stuff, its so sappy that when you mow, you can see the juice flying out from under the mower. The only good part is that it begains to die back after mowing 2 or 3 times. 73 degrees yesterday. Same again today with showers moving in in the late P.M.

jim

 

[gmason]

Harv, not being familiar with the soil types in your area, I don’t know if you can get you hands/tractor on some clay material. The clay around here( Carolina Red clay) is so sticky and slimy when it gets wet. And rain/water can’t penetrate it. It packs very well and once it’s compacted and set then even a fire hose won’t move it much.

I’m sitting here watching a new office getting the site development work, and there are 2 trac hoes, 2 graders, and 2 pan loaders, and more dumps trucks than I can count. They’re digging out a sediment pond that looks like about 2 acres. They are trac hoeing out the non-clay soil from the hole, putting it in the dump trucks and hauling it somewhere to dump. The pan scrapers are bringing red clay in from the far side of the 50ac and dropping it for a dozer to push it in the bottom of the hole, and a sheep’s foot tampers to pack bottom of the pond.
gary

 

[Jag]

Harv.. What you have are not a true blowholes. As you can see the fill turns down into the hole not pushed up and out. From the looks of the picture the holes were caused when the water came up over the top of your roadway and washed out the soil on top... The holes then started to form on the downstream edge and worked their way down through the fill. The road looks flat across most of the road way and then slopes off to the downstream edge. This set up the hydraulics to state the scouring. After the first holes underminded the fill the the upstream holes formed in the roadway and contnected to the first holes...

 

[Harv]

<font color=blue>What you have are not a true blowholes</font color=blue>

Dang it! I can't even do that right! /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

I guess I have to agree with that part of your analysis, Jag. I like the sound of the word "blowhole" -- much more exciting, but in fact all of the holes look like simple cave-ins (boring).

I'm not convinced that the water came over the top 'cuz except for the holes, the top soil looks exactly the way it did at the completion of the project. It's rain-dimpled, for sure, but even the tire tracks are still visible (not obvious in the picture, but I noticed them when I was there).

What you can't see is that there is absolutely no fill left between the pipes, so there was definitely water flow through there. We also see that that center flow couldn't get past the now solid bags at the downhill end, so I assume it had to surface and spread along that wall, eroding that side of the road. I ain't saying you're wrong, but I'm laying my own theory out there next to yours. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Sounds kind of morbid at this point, but I wish I could have seen it during the heavy flow (yes, I would have hiked out there in the rain just for a peek /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Harv,

This link has a bunch of equations in it, but it also has a lot of very practical info on sizing and placing ditches and culverts. The background info is very helpful if you decide you need an equation or two.

FM 5-430-00-1 Chapter 6: Drainage

 

[Bird]

Jim, I guess the rain ought to be about up to you now; started here at 7:30 a.m. and is supposed to be over now for two days before the next one. I only got a little less than .4" today./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[Harv]

Thanks, Dave! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I did a lot of reading before I built these culverts, but I hadn't seen that particular web page. I've only skimmed it so far, but it's got some interesting stuff.

Oh, and Gary -- there's nothing resembling clay on my property, so maybe you could FedEx me a couple of tons. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Otherwise I'll have to make do with what is available.

 

[Jag]

Harv... I would say you are correct, just doing the best I could from the pictures... If grass had grown in the the tractor ruts then the ruts might still show. Know what you mean about checking in the rain did mine twice in the first BIG rain.

 

[gerard]

That's how I did my hole grading job around the barn! Laser levels are nice but you can't beat standing out in a heavy rain and watching how the water flows!! BYTW Harv, got my chains, fit fine, you ought to look into a set. tirechains.com was about $20 less than other palces I looked for the duo grip. Found the easiest way to put on was jack the back up with a floor jack, hook the cross link to a tread and spin the wheel. Gravity keeps the links taught until the whole wheel is draped with the chains, then I use a come along to tension the ends before making the connections. Was pretty quick and gives a nice tight fit. (Did I go off topice a little?? Losiento.............)

 

[gerard]

That's how I did my whole grading job around the barn! Laser levels are nice but you can't beat standing out in a heavy rain and watching how the water flows!! BYTW Harv, got my chains, fit fine, you ought to look into a set. tirechains.com was about $20 less than other places I looked. (For the duo grip.) Found the easiest way to put on was jack the back up with a floor jack, (both wheels off at same time), hook the cross link to a tread and spin the wheel. Gravity keeps the links taught until the whole wheel is draped with the chains, then I use a come along to tension the ends before making the connections. Was pretty quick and gives a nice tight fit. (Did I go off topice a little?? Losiento.............)

 

[Harv]

Gerard -

Hadn't really considered chains, but that's a thought. Fact is, most of the property drains quickly, leaving only a couple of areas that stay muddy for any appreciabe amount of time. Just bad luck that my tractor trail has to cross one of them.

Chains would probably give me enough traction to get through it, but wouldn't that make a bigger mess of the road? I imagine if I crossed the mud very many times, those ruts would get deep enough to bottom me out. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

To tell the truth, I'm still new enough at this tractor game that I'm looking forward to digging it out and constructing a more solid road bed. I would even go so far as to say that part of me is tickled that culvert #3 needs to be re-worked. More tractor time! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I'm probably the only one on this board who invents projects just to use the tractor. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[RobS]

Re: Culvert Updates/more work

<font color=blue>I'm probably the only one on this board who invents projects just to use the tractor. </font color=blue>

Not hardly Harv... My wife just shook her head when I suggested using the tractor to move a new chair from the truck to the house door /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[gordon]

Bird, not just some of the same training ALL of the same training that the correctional officers get. Maintance personel are correctional officers first and trained as such. Makes for a safer institution if things go bad. The only difference is at graduation maintance wears tan instead of dress blues. One other bonus that the regular officers don't get that maintance does is two stripes right off the bat.

The good news---tomorrow is graduation!!!
Gordon

 

[Bird]

Gordon, I can understand the two stripes for maintenance personnel if your state's anything like Texas. They don't pay enough for correctional officers to find many who would have maintenance experience and/or training, so I don't know, but it would be my guess that Texas has to pay more, too, for maintenance personnel. Good luck and hope you enjoy the new job.

Bird

 

[gordon]

As always thanks for your kind words! Starting pay is nothing to brag about. But I already knew that going into the job. Have to stay at this rank (two stripes) for the probation period of one year. Then I'm already quailifed to move up to the next rank.
Gordon

 

[gmason]

Harv, here's a couple of my pics from our pond blew out.
The picture with the white sand bags is the intake side and the three pipes are barley visible after the bank colasped. The water level was almost up to where the mud washed out on top.
gary

 

[gmason]

herer

 

[gmason]

here's another

 

[Harv]

YIKES, Gary! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I don't feel quite so bad now. My li'l culvert problem is on a much smaller scale than yours. Glad your builder had the courtesy to make things right for you. I still have a month or two to plan my repairs. Half the fun is thinking of all the different ways to fix it. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thanks for sharing the pictures.