Curious "Canadian or U.K." question on health care?

[quicksandfarmer]

In my short stint working around medical billing centers, this description of the Canadian systems sounds like the private insurance companies in the US. Basically deny 3 times, and reduce what is covered.

Yup. With the added bonus that coverage costs three times as much in the US.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

US health care is excellent, and readily available.

A lot of people would disagree with the "readily available" part. If you have good insurance, yes. If you have a lousy insurance plan, then you're subject to rationing and it can be really expensive for the out-of-pocket part. If you don't have insurance at all the health care system is essentially unavailable to you.

If it's only readily available to a part of the population it's not really readily available.

 

[nybirdman]

I live on the U.S. side but right on the border;the way I understand it;their health care may be free but the pay outrages taxes on everything. A lot of their DR.s and nurses travel over here to work;they are limited to what they can earn in Canada.
Our veterinary clinics and stores are always loaded with Canadians;even with the dollar lower it must be cost effective to come to the "states".

 

[fried1765]

A lot of people would disagree with the "readily available" part. If you have good insurance, yes. If you have a lousy insurance plan, then you're subject to rationing and it can be really expensive for the out-of-pocket part. If you don't have insurance at all the health care system is essentially unavailable to you.

If it's only readily available to a part of the population it's not really readily available.

Hu..mm..mmm
Should a drivers license be "readily available" to EVERYONE in the US (even if you are blind?)?
Should free food be "readily available" to EVERYONE in the US, no matter what your income?
Should EVERYTHING be "readily available" with no fees,... to EVERYONE in the US?
Vladimir Lenin, and Karl Marx endorsed such a belief system.

 

[haroldy]

i am a Canadian, i agree our system is not perfect , after 80 years here I prefer our system
No one is refused coverage as over 80% of the civilized nations have similar plans.
We pay for the systems with higher taxes and like all government is poorly managed
If an emergency exits , such as heart problems it gets priority as it should
No one loses there life savings or their home to pay for service
I dont loose sleep worrying about being denied health care or insurance
Even Americans go to other countries for procedures because they cant afford them in the USA
I dont know of Canadians moving to the USA because of better health care

So don't trash something based on rumor unless you have experienced it

 

[Lgim]

Getting back to the original question. I don't think insurance was much of an issue. I have lived in Saskatchewan my entire life. People here like to claim that Saskatchewan is the home of Medicare because this was the first province with free healthcare. (I don't know) It started in 1962 which was the year after I was born so I don't remember much of the discussion. What I have come to believe from talking to people that lived through it was that the big issue was availability. The province at the time had a small population spread out over a large area with very few Dr.s Not really a place the issuance companies if there were any wanted to play in 1960. So one political party said OK we will put a Dr. In every town and pay them, the Dr.s didn't have to collect, and the people got free healthcare. The other political party said they will take all your money in taxes and some "Commie" will decide if you get to live or not. The first party won the election, Saskatchewan got free healthcare and politicians learned you can buy an election with taxpayer money.

I personally have had extra health insurance for a long time, it started when I was trucking across provincial borders. There is no "Canadian" health care, each province has their own for their residents, although they are all pretty much the same. So as a Saskatchewan resident if I got sick in Alberta and went to a Dr. He could not bill the Saskatchewan health care, so I had to pay him and then Saskatchewan would pay me. My insurance allowed the Alberta Dr to bill them and they could bill Saskatchewan. I think that insurance cost me $10 a month. The extra insurance we have now is maybe a $1000 a year but we get drugs for a minimum charge, basic health anywhere in the world and cheap travel insurance if I want to travel.

In the last 50 yrs I have known maybe 6 people that have had the urge to go to the US for treatment. In most cases the Saskatchewan Dr told them their case was terminal, their loved one called a US Dr or clinic who said "Sure no problem we deal with that every day" 6 months later the person was dead but they no longer had that savings account to worry about giving away.

I know lots of people that go to the US every winter, yes they will see a Dr while down there if there is a need but lots will also come home before seeing a Dr. I don't see one system being particularity better then the other.

Gary

 

[fried1765]

i am a Canadian, i agree our system is not perfect , after 80 years here I prefer our system
No one is refused coverage as over 80% of the civilized nations have similar plans.
We pay for the systems with higher taxes and like all government is poorly managed
If an emergency exits , such as heart problems it gets priority as it should
No one loses there life savings or their home to pay for service
I dont loose sleep worrying about being denied health care or insurance
Even Americans go to other countries for procedures because they cant afford them in the USA
I dont know of Canadians moving to the USA because of better health care

So don't trash something based on rumor unless you have experienced it

Well .....I HAVE ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED Canadian health care.
YOU are expounding on RUMORS
You know not of what you speak!
You LACK FACTS!!!

"No one is refused coverage".....but what is the quality, and availability of that coverage?

Here is just one example: Can you get PROTON RADIATION in Canada (the gold standard treatment, for Prostate & head and neck tumors)?
Most, if not all in Canada, have never even heard of it.

There are exactly 30 Proton Radiation treatment sites in the US, and absolutely NONE in Canada.

Your very own Canadian MP Jack Layton died of prostate cancer.
As a Canadian, Proton Radiation was not available to him.
Perhaps, if Mr. Layton could choose again, he might opt to pay for treatment in the US, to remain alive.

I had a GOOD insurance program (through my employer), and the treatment cost $50,000 USD in 1996. I paid $1800 of that, and I am alive and well today...22 years later.

A question: Why did Newfoundland & Labrador Premier Danny Williams choose Miami for heart surgery?

I would place my bet on alive and well in the USA, over betting against a burial plot in Canada!

Specifically, for the two of us though (you at 80, and me at 77), at this point in our lives, it may be somewhat of a moot point.
WE are both rapidly approaching that burial plot.

 

[mrmikey]

Buddy of mine was having a heart attack Sunday afternoon and didn't realize it. Wife took him to emerg. Same afternoon was sent by ambulance for an emergencey stent at a specialist hospital. Was released after a few days

I just had a heart attack March 9th of this year. In the ER (Truro) moved around different rooms for 1-1/2 days as they had no room in ICU. Moved to ICU for 3 days, went to central hospital (Halifax) 'bout 80KMS one way that does dye/angioplasty and had two stents put in. Stayed there overnight and shipped back to Truro the next day where I was released.
Waited four weeks for a stress test, had that and now gong for a MRI I think it is next week.

I have nothing but good to say about the people, the nurses, doctors...everyone was nothing but the best. It's the 'system' that sucks..........Mike

 

[Trillium Farm]

Canadain system is nice in that you don't get dinged major $$ for a procedure. Canadian system sucks in that you wait years for a procedure. I waited over two years for a knee replacement from the time that they decided I needed one. I waited 1-1/2 years fro a hip replacement during which time it's all I could do to walk. Just recently a friend of mine went from cane
to two canes to walker to wheelchair because both his hips were screwed. Ended up selling his business because he couldn't move around any more.......................Mike

As a canadian who lives through this system I can tell you that it works beautifully IF administered properly. I remember when I could call the hospital or a specialist and get an appointment for the next day, same for surgeries (well not next day but within a very reasonable time). Then arrived Pierre Elliot Trudeau who sent immigration on its ear and allowed hordes of people, who never contributed a penny, to use the system, this was called Family Reunification whereby one immigrant could call in 6 people who will use the system to its fullest (due to age) those 6 still not contributing financially. Multiply this by hundreds of thousand and you have the problem. The system whether canadian UK of European IMO is the only system that works fairly for all. I would not want to have an insurance company decided whether the surgery is worthwhile due to profit, my age etc. The problem today is that all of those non contributors have caused the system to collapse as there is little money to spend on hospital doctors etc

 

[boomer1025]

i am a Canadian, i agree our system is not perfect , after 80 years here I prefer our system
No one is refused coverage as over 80% of the civilized nations have similar plans.
We pay for the systems with higher taxes and like all government is poorly managed
If an emergency exits , such as heart problems it gets priority as it should
No one loses there life savings or their home to pay for service
I dont loose sleep worrying about being denied health care or insurance
Even Americans go to other countries for procedures because they cant afford them in the USA
I dont know of Canadians moving to the USA because of better health care

So don't trash something based on rumor unless you have experienced it

:thumbsup: