Curved VS Straight Loaders: PHOTOS

Cliff_Johns · Oct 9, 2004

( I still wonder about one fact, which I realize would not change the operators view from the seat. How high is the seat off the ground of each?)

Actually, the height of the seat makes a dramatic difference in the view. Specifically, if you look at the second picture, it appears that the seat on the blue is significantly higher. If you put a couple NY phone books on the orange seat and took the picture, I wonder how different the view would be.

It also appeared from the photos that the top orange bucket was higher, that is, the height of the bucket as measured from the bottom of the bucket to the top. Another contributing factor?

It's hard to deduce these things from the photos, but thats how it appears to me. I could be wrong on both counts.

Either way, the sloped hood is going to help the view in front of you tractor, and I think the photos help illustrate this.

Thanks for doing the scientific study. Most helpful.

Cliff

Cliff_Johns · Oct 9, 2004

( I wonder if the sloped hood and tighter engine compartments may be a contributing factor in the battery problems that some tractors are experiencing? 

Ron, I think they are separate issues only because they seem to have been resolved. It seemed to plague some models on some years, but not all. Then there is also the Kioti issue, because they have very similar loaders and hood designs on their CK20, CK25 & CK30 tractors with their 120 & 130 loaders. If the issue of tighter compartments was leading to battery problems then you'd also expect the Kioti folks to have similar issues. . . . )

JD seems to have battery problems too, from what I read here, and their engine compartment and hood design are still the old fashioned style.

Cliff

ronjhall · Oct 9, 2004

Bob
Just a comment. Cannot understand why Kubota has not followed with some of the new designs that other manufactures are finding works.
Maybe the replacement B2910 will have some of these features.

To20Chris · Oct 9, 2004

I tend to agree with you, the biggest difference appears to be the better forward vision. I've been wondering why people feel it's important to see the back of the bucket. I'm not even sure why they feel it important to see the ends, because in both cases you cannot see the front edge, and it is out there in front fairly far. Now I realize that some FELs don't have an indicator. I calibrated mine by parking it on the level, and painting an orange band on the tip (see picture) - although it's in need of a touch up. I use mine on every scoop, and with the beveled end on the tube, I can guage how aggresive I'm going to be cutting in. With practice, I find I can judge it quite accurately, and I can't imagine trying to use it without one!

Bob_Skurka · Oct 9, 2004

Good eyes. The buckets & seats are different.

The NH bucket is 21" tall by 24" deep.
The Kubota bucket is 22" tall by 20" deep.

As for the seat heights, the NH seat is sitting about 1.5" higher than the Kubota seat.

Obviously the angle of incidence from the eye of the operator to the ground is going to be a factor in addition to the curved arms and sloped/curved hood. My thought is that the overall tractor design is part of the deal of why I find one easier to use than the other, which is why I felt is was necessary in any comparison to have the pictures taken by the same users for comparison purposes. In my previous posts, I always stated that it was the combination of the curved arms & the curved/sloped hoods. Putting curved arms on the Kubota would only be a negligable benifit as the hood blocks much of the view.

A person who is 5'9" tall will likely not see the 3' mark in front of the NH but a person who is 6'3" tall probably will see closer to 2.5'. The same perspectives would occur with the Kubota as a shorter operator may have his view blocked out to 7' while a taller operator might be able to see as close as 5.5". But in any case, if any one person sits on both styles of tractors that person will have a substantially better view on a machine with a curved/sloped hood and curved loader arms.

thcri · Oct 9, 2004

Bob,

Job well done!! If the Kubota had a curved hood it would give you some pretty good visibility. I think the hood does the majority of the increased visibility but the arms do help also.

Also, I think because other manufactures are either making curved arms or telling me they will be making me tells me that it is what the majority of people are asking for.

murph

Bob_Skurka · Oct 9, 2004

I've been wondering why people feel it's important to see the back of the bucket. 

Actually I think this misses much of the issue. It is not the back of the bucket that is an issue at all. It is what is in front of the bucket that is an issue. And this has been discussed by several different people on several of the threads, so it is a common feeling.

The increase in productivity is not ONLY related to how much I can scoop up when I dig into a pile. It is also related to how LITTLE I can disturb what I don't want disturbed. It is also related to many other tasks that don't require the full strength and force of the bucket but perhaps require a lighter touch. I found the difference when I was cleaning out a field and needed to pick up debris. I was not digging at all, I was picking. And when you try to pick up what you cannot see, then you are simply doing no more than shooting at targets in the dark.

I totally agree that if you are digging in a pile of whatever, then either tractor & loader configuration will work very handily. But neither is as good as a Power Trac or a dedicated loader type machine. So I guess the whole excercise is that for OVERALL use, where many varied types of loader work will be applied, then I find the NH style curved loader and curved/sloped hoods to be a significant advantage.

RONJHALL: I have no idea why Kubota (or any other brand) designs their tractors to look the way they do. In fact, from the front, I don't like the NH design; but from the seat, I find it to be fantastic.

SteveH_CT · Oct 9, 2004

Thanks for the very scientific approach. In the down position the sloped hood affords a better view - no getting around it. I don't know that the curved arms are as much of a difference as the hood is. For me, I still think it would be less of an advantage since I rarely drive with the bucket all the way down. On either one, once the bucket is up isn't the difference in the hood curvature negated?

Bob_Skurka · Oct 9, 2004

. On either one, once the bucket is up isn't the difference in the hood curvature negated?


Steve, to some extent the answer is yes. But it is an issue of relativity. And then we need to look at applications. When one is driving, the bucket is likely to be up 6 to 12 inches and that will block the view. But when one is working, then the bucket is going to be near, at, or even below ground level. When I am mowing, tilling, raking, etc with the FEL on, then I'm not really worried about visibility too much. But when I am operating the FEL, then there is a very large and very noticable difference.

Henro · Oct 9, 2004

Bob,

Great job and thanks for taking the time to do the photo comparison! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

A couple days ago I took a photo from the seat of my B2910 doing my best to simulate where my eyes normally are when operating. Forgive Junkman's influence in the background... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Amazing thing is that even with the extra clutter of the "hood protector" I still seem to find operating the loader a pleasure and do not really have any difficulties. I am able to shift my head to the right or left and see up between the side of the tractor and the loader arms pretty well.

The attached photo may indicate how bad one can make things if he tries... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I was actually surprised when I saw the photo how bad it looks! Even then, I do not really ever feel the need to take the guard off the hood and run without it.

Again...great job!