cut fieldstone veneer

[ratter]

Not exactly a tractor topic, but I wanted to tap the collective knowledge here...

The previous owners of our house put on an addition, the walls of the walk-out basement that they built are OSB on the exterior covered with rigid foam board. That's currently how it sits - they never finished it. I'd like to finish the lower portion of those walls with a cut fieldstone veneer to attempt to match the look of the rest of the house's stacked fieldstone foundation.

So, questions:

1. What do I need to do to prep the wall and attach a stone veneer? I'm thinking house wrap over the foam board, then attach a wire mesh and attach stones to the mesh with mortar. Is that correct?

2. How hard is it (using rented tools, perhaps) to cut fieldstone into veneer pieces? I have a half-dozen car-sized piles of stone around the property. I feel a bit silly spending hundreds of dollars for a couple pallets of the stuff...

Thoughts? Much appreciated!
-Mike

 

[rswyan]

Not to steal your thread but .....

I don't have answers on this as I haven't started to research it yet myself but I have a great deal of interest - our house is cedar-sided with a stone and brick front. I'm not happy with the stone and would like to replace it - with the stacked fieldstone you mention or rounded river rock. I'm really not all that keen on the existing brick either and would like to replace it as well, but practicality (and economics) prevail.

We also have a 28' x 32' concrete block shed right at the entrance to our driveway - it is very ugly. The wife wants it gone but I'm unwilling to waste it - so we came up with a good compromise - turn it into a greenhouse. The thought was to disaseemble the shed, removing the roof but saving the trusses, then remove the block walls down to the 5th or 6th course and then stud frame it back up from there incorporating cheap (free, scrap, salvage) windows for the side walls and maybe some of that translucent roofing material for a roof to let the light in. And then cover the 5 or 6 courses of block that remain with some kind of stone facing.

This project is aways off for me - maybe next year or the year after .... but I'd be interested in any replies you get.

 

[EddieWalker]

Ratter,

What you propose is outside anythign I've done before, but I have a little experience with brick, manufactured stone and flagstone patio's.

To put flagstone on a wall will require two things. A very strong ledge or footing to distribute the load, and a surface to hold the morter.

The ledge would have to be tied into your foundation and probably have to meet some sort of code. I've done this for a brick vineer before, and it's a real pain in the but to dig out, drill into the foundation and tie it all together.

The wall will need sheeting, something to seal it, and wire lathe to provide the morter with something to bond to. Again, this is a pretty big job.

Are you really sure you want to do this?


rswyan,

I was really expecting something different when I saw your pictures. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to me,that's a fine looking building. Is there anything wrong with it other than you don't like the looks of it?

Ripping apart a building to convert it to a greenhouse is a very expensive way to go about building a greenhouse. Sort of like buying a new car to make a go cart. Lots of waste for something allot less than you started out with. But that's just my opinion.

Have you considered plantng a screen of trees or bushes in front of the builiding and turning an eyesore into an attractive landscaping feature to you land?

Or if you really want a greenhouse in that location, what about building one right in front of the building you don't like? You could make it exactly what you want and still have the other building for storage.

Eddie

 

[ratter]

Ratter,

What you propose is outside anythign I've done before, but I have a little experience with brick, manufactured stone and flagstone patio's.

To put flagstone on a wall will require two things. A very strong ledge or footing to distribute the load, and a surface to hold the morter.

The ledge would have to be tied into your foundation and probably have to meet some sort of code. I've done this for a brick vineer before, and it's a real pain in the but to dig out, drill into the foundation and tie it all together.

The wall will need sheeting, something to seal it, and wire lathe to provide the morter with something to bond to. Again, this is a pretty big job.

Are you really sure you want to do this?

Eddie, thanks very much for the input. No, I'm not at all sure I want to do this - this is part of me figuring that out.

Some more detail - there's a good 6"+ ledge of foundation sticking out there beyond the plane of the wall to support the stone, so hopefully that wouldn't be a problem. And the entire area is maybe 100 sq ft or so - not a huge area. So those two things are in my favor.

But not knowing anything about construction, my biggest concern is having the proper configuration of "layers" of wall to do the job right and protect against water damage, etc.

The wall is currently just the sheathing (OSB), covered in rigid foam insulation boards that have a layer of what looks like plastic wrap on the outside. Can I attach the wire lathe directly over that, or am I missing a piece(s)? I'm also assuming I'd need some kind of flashing over that foundation ledge, and around the window (there's one window...)?

Thanks a ton,
-Mike

 

[hilld]

Not exactly a tractor topic, but I wanted to tap the collective knowledge here...

The previous owners of our house put on an addition, the walls of the walk-out basement that they built are OSB on the exterior covered with rigid foam board. That's currently how it sits - they never finished it. I'd like to finish the lower portion of those walls with a cut fieldstone veneer to attempt to match the look of the rest of the house's stacked fieldstone foundation.

So, questions:

1. What do I need to do to prep the wall and attach a stone veneer? I'm thinking house wrap over the foam board, then attach a wire mesh and attach stones to the mesh with mortar. Is that correct?

2. How hard is it (using rented tools, perhaps) to cut fieldstone into veneer pieces? I have a half-dozen car-sized piles of stone around the property. I feel a bit silly spending hundreds of dollars for a couple pallets of the stuff...

Thoughts? Much appreciated!
-Mike

When you apply the wrap, make sure you use something like tar paper (it has to be waterproof), then apply lath and a scratch coat (similar as doing stucco). Once you have that, you can attach the veneer, you might want to look into cultured stone (fake concrete) that is designed for this purpose, all sorts of shapes, colors and styles are avaialble, cost to do this installed is around $20 sqft, usually around $12 sqft for the material. One company that comes to mind that sells all sorts of cultured stones is Owens Corning - URL: http://www.culturedstone.com/products/

Hope that helps.

BTW, on their website they have all sorts of installation scenarios, look at this URL: http://www.culturedstone.com/technical/details.asp

Derek

 

[EddieWalker]

Hi Mike,

The ledge will really simplify things for you!!!

I'm not sure about the OSB. Is it 7/16's thick nailed onto studs on 16 inch centers? This is the very minimum for cultured, or manmad stone and brick. Real stone is much heavier than fake and I'm not qualified to tell you if it's strong enough or not.

The problem you will run into is if the wood flexes or ever moves. Than you rist loosing the bond from the morter to the rock. You may have seen this when vineer rock falls off of a building.

3/4 exterior grade plywood would be allot better.

Getting the wall waterproof can be a very frustrating battle. Most homes lead to some degree. I won't say all homes do, but in my opinion, they do.

What you need to do is eliminate as much moisture as you can from penitrating into your walls. Heavy tar paper in overlaping layers works just about as good as anything else. You put it on your wall just like you would on a roof. Then attach your lathe and scratch coat.

Derek's advice to check out the websites is really good advice. Even just to see some of the diagrams can make a huge difference in what you'll need to do.

Eddie

 

[Paddy]

Tractor topics not required in Rural living. OK, here how I see this. Yes you need to water proof between the stone and sheeting, easy as stated by others. The real task is the ties to the frame/osb. You do NOT fill the void between the stone and house. Let it breath. The ties will be found at any big box store in the masonary dept. They are 3/4" by 6" corigated thin galv metal. Nail to house, bend at 90 deg out. Pc of cake.

Cutting sand stone/line stone is quite easy with circle saw. But is that the look you are matching?? Not so common here. most is broke with a mason's hammer.

Laying stone is easy, laying stone to look professional is quite diffacult. With 100 sq-ft, hire it done or use some other siding. I can always spot a DIY stone job.

 

[EddieWalker]

Paddy,

Are you talking about brick ties? Brick is installed with the void keeping it away from the house, but tied to the studs.

If he's stacking the rock, that would make sense. Just install it like brick.

I was thinking he was going to put the flagstone up against the wall the way cultured stone is installed.

Two different technique that require totally different methods.

Eddie

 

[rswyan]

I was really expecting something different when I saw your pictures. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to me,that's a fine looking building.

Indeed Eddie, indeed. I was quite willing to live with it myself, but the wife (and everyone else with an opinion about it) wanted it gone. Originally my plan was to try and dress it up some, adding overhangs to the ends to go along with the ones on the sides, side it somehow (either wood, Hardiplank (?), stone veneer, or something.

Is there anything wrong with it other than you don't like the looks of it?

Other than the floor, which is cracked (was never cut and probably does not have mesh or rebar in it) nothing major. The overhang trim needs painted and in a couple spots it needs replaced ..... and there are places where the building could stand to be tuck pointed. I also need to vent the attic space. Oh .... yeah .... the overhead door got a little mangled the day I brought the tractor home. It's a 7' x 12' (odd size) steel and needs to be replaced.

Other than that it's in pretty decent shape - I insulated the ceiling joists and hung drywall to close it up and make it easier to heat in the winter. My oldest son and his wife gave me a little window A/C unit and I stuck that in at the end of last summer. Since I haven't gotten the polebarn finished the shed functions as my shop. It's nice to go in there on a 90° day and have the temp be in the 70's.

My father built this back in '69 to store his tractor back when they built the home here. My Kubota won't fit in it without folding down the ROPS ..... I was gonna just put an addition on it for the Kubota but the wife said "You should just put up a bigger barn." ........ so who was I to argue ?

Ripping apart a building to convert it to a greenhouse is a very expensive way to go about building a greenhouse. Sort of like buying a new car to make a go cart. Lots of waste for something allot less than you started out with. But that's just my opinion. Have you considered plantng a screen of trees or bushes in front of the builiding and turning an eyesore into an attractive landscaping feature to you land?

I see your point. It surely would be alot of work and not a insignificant expense. I have considered screening it, that would be fine coming into the lot from the street (north and west sides), it can't done though on the side (east) the driveway is on because it runs right next to the building, and I don't want to screen it so I can't see it from the house (south) - from a security standpoint (the building is probably 400' away from our house - but only about 30' from the road. We are the only people that live on the road, which is a dead-end ...... but still )

Or if you really want a greenhouse in that location, what about building one right in front of the building you don't like? You could make it exactly what you want and still have the other building for storage.

Now that's a thought too - screen the roadside of the building (north & west) with shrubs/trees and put a greenhouse on the southside, which would hide it from the house. Hmmmm ... choices, choices ......

 

[Paddy]

Eddy,

He was not detailed in his design. But you are right, two diff approches. So ratter, what the method used on the house now? Photo would be nice.

 

[ratter]

Eddy,

He was not detailed in his design. But you are right, two diff approches. So ratter, what the method used on the house now? Photo would be nice.

My tentative plan is a thin veneer stuck to the wall, moreso than stone stacked against the wall. The local stone/brick store sells pallets of flat pieces of field stone cut about an inch thick.

Right now, there's nothing there. Just the exposed rigid foam insulation. This is an addition. The rest of the house is a stacked fieldstone foundation, so the idea was to try and match the look of it for consistency's sake.

But you guys might be talking me out of it! I could also do wood siding to match the rest of the old part of the house, but sourcing matching siding might be a chore (original house is circa 1880). Not to mention I've got to paint the whole house too. Worried about overloading myself with honey-dos......

'ppreciate the help guys,
-Mike

 

[CurlyDave]

We also have a 28' x 32' concrete block shed right at the entrance to our driveway - it is very ugly.

rswyan:

Why not just sheath this building in stone?

It would improve the looks, and you would not lose the utility of the building while the work is in process.

I have sheathed a small section of an interior wall in natural stone (irregular pieces about 1" to 1 1/2" thick, maybe 1 to 3 square feet each.)

I used the concrete backerboard screwed onto studs and mortar mixed with a lot of the acrylic concrete bonder in it for good adhesion to hold the stone in place. There is a concrete slab floor under it, but I made no specific attempt to transfer weight to the floor. I did fill in the gaps between rocks with the mortar also, so there is some weight transfer. The section is only 4' wide, but it is 8' high and there has been no problem at all over the last 16 or 17 years.

Take your blockhouse and pressure wash it really well to get a good clean surface. Wash the bonding surface of the fieldstone slabs really well, mix up some moratr with the bonding agent in it and start going.

Two tips.

Start on the side of the blockhouse you don't see from your driveway. Your skill will improve rapidly, and you want the mistakes to be on the side away from you.

With irregular rocks you need to get an area on the ground the same size & shape as the wall you are covering. Take your time and lay out the rocks in the exact pattern you are going to place them on the wall. If you spend the time, you will be able to generate a pleasant pattern with no cutting and very little rock breaking. In general, not doing this is what makes a DIY job look that way. Someone has mortar setting and hasn't really laid out his pattern so he just picks up a rock he sized by eye from 30 feet away and tries to get it to fit. Ends up with a kludge.

 

[rswyan]

Dave,

Took me awhile to get back to this thread - got off the radar screen.

Thanks for the advice and the tips - it will be useful ..... although the way I want to go is a little different than what you did if I'm reading correctly .... at least in terms of the stone.

The front of our house was done similar to what you described - fairly large pieces of stone which were chiseled (?) to have a fairly flat but irregular surface. The thickness (from the side that faces out to inside that is attached to the wall) is probably 2" or 3". The stones vary in size from slightly under 1 sq. ft. to probably around 2 sq. ft. I just don't particularly care for that look.

I'd prefer rounded river rock or a dry stacked ledge stone look: