Cutting power use to the bone.
- Thread starter Diggin It
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5030
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- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
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I will say that the prolific availability of LED bulbs has changed my life as far as vehicle and tractor and trailer lighting is concerned.
Everything I own, implements, tractors, cars and trucks all are retrofitted with LED bulbs. No more changing burnt out bulbs.
Far as our utility bill is concerned, I 100% agree, it's going up all the time and it has everything to do with the 'green energy' fiasco perpetrated on consumers by the gummit.
Green energy is 99% BS.
Everything I own, implements, tractors, cars and trucks all are retrofitted with LED bulbs. No more changing burnt out bulbs.
Far as our utility bill is concerned, I 100% agree, it's going up all the time and it has everything to do with the 'green energy' fiasco perpetrated on consumers by the gummit.
Green energy is 99% BS.
Tinhack
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Around here, charges are Tier based. The less you use, the more it costs. The more you use, the less it costs. I use what I have to. My house is all electric. I don't have much choice. They even charge for a meter whether you use electricity or not. It's like $9 a month for the meter I used for the old well. I keep it on in case I need power down front.
Roric
Silver Member
I will challenge your statement that green energy is not real.
In November this year it will be 4 years that we have had a 7.5k solar array online.
At that anniversary I expect to have generated 36 mega-watt-hours of juice.
About 22 kwh per day average. This has completely offset the monthly electric bill.
I've said before that my favorite thing is when one of us leaves a light on or something I say "do you think we get free electricity around here?"
She says "matter of fact, yes I do".
It is real. It is here. Pretending will not make it go away but your belief system is yours and YMMV
regards,
R
5030
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Whatever floats your boat. Just remember where the elements are coming from is all I can say.
Roric
Silver Member
Mission solar panels, (made in Texas),
Solaredge inverter, optimizers (Israel)and
Iron Ridge mounting racks, USA.
Remainder of installation materials purchased locally.
It was a priority of mine to buy American.
Probably more domestic content that todays tractors or Harleys.
(Just so's you know for future reference)
regards,
R
ponytug
Super Member
@5030 do you have any published data for renewables causing your power price to go up?
California was amongst the highest energy rates in the US before solar, and still does post solar and wind expansion. Hawaii, which does have the highest electricity rates in the US last time I checked, has had their rates go down moving from oil powered plants to more solar and batteries. By the way, when we are talking "electricity costs" don't forget the effect of inflation. That great $0.10/kWh rate from 1990, is up to $0.24 just on inflation alone. CPI Inflation Calculator
www.hawaiianelectric.com
Like @roric, we have exported millions of watts (3-4MWh net) of electricity at a cost to the utility equal to the same cost as they buy wholesale; we pay all of their costs for infrastructure (transmission costs, maintenance, etc.). They get the power without having to spend money on generation infrastructure, so they actually turn more of a profit on our power, despite their whingeing about it. We aren't causing any price increases.
The cost of solar power has gone down to between a third (residential) to a fifth (utility scale) of what it was ten years ago.
cleantechnica.com
The cost of oil has gone up enormously in the last thirty years, (2x)
www.macrotrends.net
gas prices less so.
www.macrotrends.net
Both charts are inflation adjusted. Utility pricing for coal costs is largely not public, so there isn't a great public way to know those trends.
All the best,
Peter
California was amongst the highest energy rates in the US before solar, and still does post solar and wind expansion. Hawaii, which does have the highest electricity rates in the US last time I checked, has had their rates go down moving from oil powered plants to more solar and batteries. By the way, when we are talking "electricity costs" don't forget the effect of inflation. That great $0.10/kWh rate from 1990, is up to $0.24 just on inflation alone. CPI Inflation Calculator
Time of Use Rate History
Hawaiian Electric's Time of Use rates can help you save money.
www.hawaiianelectric.com
Like @roric, we have exported millions of watts (3-4MWh net) of electricity at a cost to the utility equal to the same cost as they buy wholesale; we pay all of their costs for infrastructure (transmission costs, maintenance, etc.). They get the power without having to spend money on generation infrastructure, so they actually turn more of a profit on our power, despite their whingeing about it. We aren't causing any price increases.
The cost of solar power has gone down to between a third (residential) to a fifth (utility scale) of what it was ten years ago.
Charts: A Decade of Cost Declines for US Solar PV Systems - CleanTechnica
NREL Marks Ongoing Cost Reductions for Installed Photovoltaic Systems, While Also Establishing Benchmark of PV-Plus-Storage Systems
cleantechnica.com
The cost of oil has gone up enormously in the last thirty years, (2x)
Crude Oil Prices - 70 Year Historical Chart
Interactive charts of West Texas Intermediate (WTI or NYMEX) crude oil prices per barrel back to 1946. The price of oil shown is adjusted for inflation using the headline CPI and is shown by default on a logarithmic scale. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.
www.macrotrends.net
Natural Gas Prices - Historical Chart
Interactive chart illustrating the history of Henry Hub natural gas prices. The prices shown are in U.S. dollars.
www.macrotrends.net
Both charts are inflation adjusted. Utility pricing for coal costs is largely not public, so there isn't a great public way to know those trends.
All the best,
Peter
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Off Grid?
CobyRupert
Super Member
Here’s a dirty little secret no one wants to admit: Capitalism doesn’t have the solution to all of humanity’s problems.
Let’s say a efficient utility has 1000 customers and needs $1.2 million dollars a year to keep wires on the poles, buy utility trucks, etc..
Math says, on average, every customer pays $1200 a year, or $100 a month. The books balance.
Now, 50% of the customers install LED lightbulbs, or puts solar panels on their roof, etc.. and their usage goes down 50%.
The utility still needs $12 million dollars a year for the wires, poles, trucks, workers, etc...
What is capitalism’s answer: 1) Customer’s bills are 1/2 of what they use to pay? Or:
2) Energy rates double?
The answer is #1 (at first) , then #2 (eventually).
Now imagine 999 customers went solar and you’re the last customer on the line. Your bill has to be $12 million or else the utility company goes broke.
Obviously, it’s a bit more complicated than these examples (as people still stay connected with less usage), but the principle is the same. It’s like when the nation gets a salary raise at work, then discovers that the price of everything goes up. Good ole supply and demand.
Let’s say a efficient utility has 1000 customers and needs $1.2 million dollars a year to keep wires on the poles, buy utility trucks, etc..
Math says, on average, every customer pays $1200 a year, or $100 a month. The books balance.
Now, 50% of the customers install LED lightbulbs, or puts solar panels on their roof, etc.. and their usage goes down 50%.
The utility still needs $12 million dollars a year for the wires, poles, trucks, workers, etc...
What is capitalism’s answer: 1) Customer’s bills are 1/2 of what they use to pay? Or:
2) Energy rates double?
The answer is #1 (at first) , then #2 (eventually).
Now imagine 999 customers went solar and you’re the last customer on the line. Your bill has to be $12 million or else the utility company goes broke.
Obviously, it’s a bit more complicated than these examples (as people still stay connected with less usage), but the principle is the same. It’s like when the nation gets a salary raise at work, then discovers that the price of everything goes up. Good ole supply and demand.
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ponytug
Super Member
Off grid is not allowed in many jurisdictions if a) you already have a meter, and/or want / are required to have the house inspected.
