Cutting power use to the bone.

[Diggin It]

And they wonder why poeple wander off and don't post here as much.

 

[Snobdds]

Here’s a dirty little secret no one wants to admit: Capitalism doesn’t have the solution to all of humanity’s problems.

Let’s say a efficient utility has 1000 customers and needs $1.2 million dollars a year to keep wires on the poles, buy utility trucks, etc..
Math says, on average, every customer pays $1200 a year, or $100 a month. The books balance.

Now, 50% of the customers install LED lightbulbs, or puts solar panels on their roof, etc.. and their usage goes down 50%.

The utility still needs $12 million dollars a year for the wires, poles, trucks, workers, etc...

What is capitalism’s answer: 1) Customer’s bills are 1/2 of what they use to pay? Or:
2) Energy rates double?
The answer is #1 (at first) , then #2 (eventually).

Now imagine 999 customers went solar and you’re the last customer on the line. Your bill has to be $12 million or else the utility company goes broke.

Obviously, it’s a bit more complicated than these examples (as people still stay connected with less usage), but the principle is the same. It’s like when the nation gets a salary raise at work, then discovers that the price of everything goes up. Good ole supply and demand.

Good example, but it's not supply and demand.

Utilities and other large capital intensive operations defy the laws of supply and demand. It's called load factor economics. The utility would scale back the energy distribution until it satisfies demand. However you would still be billed on how much it costs to bring power to your meter. You could use nothing and still be charged.

No matter what, delivery is spread out on everyone...

 

[Snobdds]

And they wonder why poeple wander off and don't post here as much.

Stop being dramatic...

 

[paulsharvey]

There is nothing wrong with trying to reduce power usage. Now, it can get pretty crazy at the extremes, and the benefits start getting smaller as you get closer to zero, for more sacrifice. At a certain point, there are better things to focus on to save money.

Gas Inst-Hot water heaters are great if you have gas available. LEDs are a pretty painless thing to covert to.

When you decide to do self composting toilets, to save $1/month of well pump power, you've definitely crossed the line.

Get a free energy audit from most power co-ops. Water heater is a big percentage. Of coarse AC/heat, TVs/computers/ect add up if you leave them on.

 

[ultrarunner]

It’s a little ironic that every utility is pushing conservation and then says lower sales justifies higher rates.

The way it should work is volume users should get a break as distribution is fairly fixed… be it water, gas, electric…

 

[oosik]

Right now I have one light on - the freezer, hot water heater, frige and this computer. That's about as low as I can go. I've often wondered about LED lights throughout the house. But their "savings" is only there if they are on. And I always have only one light on. IE - leave the room - turn off the light.

During the summer - my monthly electric bill is just one notch above the "service minimum".

 

[CobyRupert]

In the winter, any savings the LED bulbs give you is spent for additional heating fuel.
That is, if your heating source isn’t as efficient/economical as the electrical heat that you get from an incandescent bulb (which is a >90% efficient electrical “heater”), then you’re losing money with LED “savings”.

However, in the summer, the savings you get from LED’s is multiplied. Not only their reduced wattage consumption; but your A/C also saves a good percentage of that electricity again, not having to remove the additional heat (energy) of those incandescent bulbs.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

In the winter, any savings the LED bulbs give you is spent for additional heating fuel.
That is, if your heating source isn’t as efficient/economical as the electrical heat that you get from an incandescent bulb (which is a >90% efficient electrical “heater”), then you’re losing money with LED “savings”.

However, in the summer, the savings you get from LED’s is multiplied. Not only their reduced wattage consumption; but your A/C also saves a good percentage of that electricity again, not having to remove the additional heat (energy) of those incandescent bulbs.

Good post for not outlawing incandescent bulbs, because they are more efficient for heating.

 

[4570Man]

In the winter, any savings the LED bulbs give you is spent for additional heating fuel.
That is, if your heating source isn’t as efficient/economical as the electrical heat that you get from an incandescent bulb (which is a >90% efficient electrical “heater”), then you’re losing money with LED “savings”.

However, in the summer, the savings you get from LED’s is multiplied. Not only their reduced wattage consumption; but your A/C also saves a good percentage of that electricity again, not having to remove the additional heat (energy) of those incandescent bulbs.

You’re not loosing money with them ever. At least from an energy use standpoint. If you were heating with electric resistance heat you’d break even. It still takes the same amount of energy to warm the house and which source it comes from makes no difference. But electric resistance is typically the most expensive heating fuel. If you were using a cheaper method of heating you’d be money ahead to use the led light bulbs that use less electric and more of the cheaper fuel.

 

[CobyRupert]

You’re not loosing money with them ever. At least from an energy use standpoint. If you were heating with electric resistance heat you’d break even. It still takes the same amount of energy to warm the house and which source it comes from makes no difference. But electric resistance is typically the most expensive heating fuel. If you were using a cheaper method of heating you’d be money ahead to use the led light bulbs that use less electric and more of the cheaper fuel.

Hmm…haven’t done the math in a while, but electric resistance always beat fuel oil and propane on a $/btu basis for me or was too close to call.
… granted, it gets fuzzy when estimating various combustible fuel furnace efficiencies, seasonal price fluctuations (if applicable), etc..
I know nothing about natural gas….