Cylinder Repair

[TimP]

Hi All.

The cylinder on my front mount snow blower sled/sub-frame is leaking.

I ordered the seal kit and talked to my local dealer about them doing the repair (install the seal kit).

They said to just bring the cylinder in to them and they will do the repair.

Should I remove it and leave the hydraulic hoses attached so they can test it when done?

I am sure it would be a LOT less messy (for me) if I leave the hoses attached to take it to them.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[BeezFun]

I've had cylinders repaired at the local hydraulics shop, they don't want anything but the bare cylinders brought in. You can put a small container under the hoses when you disconnect them to catch the fluid, and then pour the fluid out of the cylinder once you remove it.

You're actually doing most of the hard work, have you thought about replacing the seals yourself? The only specialized tool you would need is a pin spanner to get the end cap off, and you can get by without that if you don't mind dinging things up a little bit with a pipe wrench or a punch. If you can weld, you can make a spanner. You'll need some brass or plastic picks to get the orings out of their grooves. This is a good cylinder to learn on, it's not very big.

 

[TimP]

I've had cylinders repaired at the local hydraulics shop, they don't want anything but the bare cylinders brought in. You can put a small container under the hoses when you disconnect them to catch the fluid, and then pour the fluid out of the cylinder once you remove it.

You're actually doing most of the hard work, have you thought about replacing the seals yourself? The only specialized tool you would need is a pin spanner to get the end cap off, and you can get by without that if you don't mind dinging things up a little bit with a pipe wrench or a punch. If you can weld, you can make a spanner. You'll need some brass or plastic picks to get the orings out of their grooves. This is a good cylinder to learn on, it's not very big.

Thanks for the info.

I did consider doing the repair myself, but heard many a story about not being able to get the end off.

I guess I could try to find an appropriate Pin Spanner somewhere and give it a try.

Hopefully I can keep track of how the seals come off, and in which direction, so I can put it back together correctly.

You might have convinced me to give it a go. I can always drop it off at the dealer if I fail.....

Thanks.

 

[Dave M7040]

Thanks for the info.

I did consider doing the repair myself, but heard many a story about not being able to get the end off.

I guess I could try to find an appropriate Pin Spanner somewhere and give it a try.

Hopefully I can keep track of how the seals come off, and in which direction, so I can put it back together correctly.

You might have convinced me to give it a go. I can always drop it off at the dealer if I fail.....

Thanks.

Have you read the loader WSM on hydraulic cylinder seal replacement?

Properly done Kubota would have you make two special jigs. They do not sell these special tools.

The slide jig is to stretch the seals over the piston in a smooth uniform manner.

The correction jig is to compress the newly installed seals so they will fit inside the cylinder.

Anyone can stretch the seals and get them into position. The downside to this is a much shorter life expectancy.

Big Kubota dealers like Messicks have acknowledged that their techs do not use the special jigs but instead use the following procedure:

Here is an email from Messick's re the LA463 loader hydraulics.

Good afternoon.
I apologize, it does state to use special tools(slide jig and correcting jig) to install the expander and piston seal.
However, it instructs you or us as a dealer to make the tools.
We do not have these tools.
Our technician informs me that he would heat the expander in water or oil and install it manually into the piston groove.
He would then install the piston seal over the expander.
And then he would put the piston with seals in a refrigerator for a few minutes, which will shrink the piston seal over
the expander
and allow the installation into the cylinder barrel.
I hope this helps, if you need more information, please let me know.
Thanks, Tim
Tim R. Marholz
Messick's Technical Support

Whatever you decide to do, just go into the job fully informed.

Dave M7040

 

[mrmikey]

I'd be giving it a go with a pin spanner or a pipe wrench. Yes I know it's not the correct tool but you gotta do what you gotta do. I'd make sure the gland nut was loose before removing the cylinder from the machine, it's be a far sight easier to loosen the nut with the cylinder held firm with the pin...provided you can get at it that is.
As for warming the seals in oil or water, use oil. An old timer told me if you use water to warm up a seal. make a cup of tea with the water when you're done and use the seal as a coaster because you just ruined it.....................Mike

 

[Richard]

My vote goes with the give it a try yourself.

Years ago, I pulled the dipperstick cylinder off my backhoe. About broke my back getting it to the truck. Long story short, dealer charged me something like $1,200 for this.... I about fainted. I figured 2-300....

I was mad at myself as I never asked before hand.....I got the manager and made inquiry... they discounted me down to $1,000 (thanks....)

About two years ago, came time to rebuild same cylinder. HA, I wasn't going to have any of that (I had tried my luck on some of the others) I've now replaced the dipper stick cylinder, stablizers.

Getting (whatever it was) over the piston WAS a bit of a challenge.... but persistence paid off and I didn't have to warm it. On one of the items, (I don't recall what at this point) I put some masking tape over the threads to help protect the gasket from them. Worked like a charm.

If you are handy at all, you can do this. Now, if you are like my father.... just sell the machine and call it a day. (I'm reasonably sure he'd have issues using a hammer HA!) No wonder I grew up mechanically inclined.... had to.

 

[Richard]

Oh, and when I rebuilt dipper stick cylinder, the parts were something like $75.00

 

[TimP]

Have you read the loader WSM on hydraulic cylinder seal replacement?

Properly done Kubota would have you make two special jigs. They do not sell these special tools.

The slide jig is to stretch the seals over the piston in a smooth uniform manner.

The correction jig is to compress the newly installed seals so they will fit inside the cylinder.

Anyone can stretch the seals and get them into position. The downside to this is a much shorter life expectancy.

Big Kubota dealers like Messicks have acknowledged that their techs do not use the special jigs but instead use the following procedure:

Here is an email from Messick's re the LA463 loader hydraulics.

Good afternoon.
I apologize, it does state to use special tools(slide jig and correcting jig) to install the expander and piston seal.
However, it instructs you or us as a dealer to make the tools.
We do not have these tools.
Our technician informs me that he would heat the expander in water or oil and install it manually into the piston groove.
He would then install the piston seal over the expander.
And then he would put the piston with seals in a refrigerator for a few minutes, which will shrink the piston seal over
the expander
and allow the installation into the cylinder barrel.
I hope this helps, if you need more information, please let me know.
Thanks, Tim
Tim R. Marholz
Messick's Technical Support

Whatever you decide to do, just go into the job fully informed.

Dave M7040

Thanks... that's a lot of good info to have......

 

[TimP]

I'd be giving it a go with a pin spanner or a pipe wrench. Yes I know it's not the correct tool but you gotta do what you gotta do. I'd make sure the gland nut was loose before removing the cylinder from the machine, it's be a far sight easier to loosen the nut with the cylinder held firm with the pin...provided you can get at it that is.
As for warming the seals in oil or water, use oil. An old timer told me if you use water to warm up a seal. make a cup of tea with the water when you're done and use the seal as a coaster because you just ruined it.....................Mike

Oh-Oh... that doesn't sound good.....

 

[TimP]

Oh, and when I rebuilt dipper stick cylinder, the parts were something like $75.00

I already ordered the Kubota Seal kit.. it was $35. Not to bad....

A brand new cylinder was $385.

I don't know how much the dealer would charge, but prolly tme and material for about an hour. ($100/hr).

So it would cost around $150 to let the dealer do the repair. But I am "assuming an hour of labor. It could be more.

As long as it all comes in under $385, I am ahead of the game.