Dairy work

[s120483]

Hey all have a few questions in the compact utility tractor market. I manage a 3000 cow dairy. We are currently using Case skid steers to scrape manure daily. Our cows are housed in freestall barns and most of the year the manure is liquid. We use a rubber tire scraper to push manure to center of 500' barns where it drops into a flume that carries manure to the lagoons. We are wanting to get away from skid steers for maintenance reasons, just cost too much to run and guys can get out of control pretty easily. We need more compact machine for some tighter areas. We don't dig into piles of anything much. We occasionally lift a 2000 lb pallet of feed from a truck bed. Frozen manure in the winter would be the hardest thing we deal with, use the bucket to chisel it from the concrete floors. We run the units 15 hours a day. Looking at HST for simplicity, we have 30 employees on farm so need something durable and simple. Need a cab since we run these units 365 days a year, no matter the weather. What brand is best for this type of use? Looking for something with minimal downtime and can hold up to all day use. Size wise thinking L6060 or 4066R. Think this is the right choice, they are dimensionally acceptable. We are buying 4 of these units for the farm, so it is a big investment. Please share all opinions on any and all brands. Thanks for any and all help in this process. We don't use CUT on the farm much, so not real familiar with all of the players in this market.

 

[DT86]

For a compact machine running 15 hours a day I'm not so sure a skid steer can be beat.

How long do you expect a machine to last? You're talking 5400+ hours a year each right?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Deere, Massey, Kubota and Case offer CUTs for vineyard work that are narrow and shorter than standard CUTs. To get info, I'd call corporate HQs so they can steer you to a dealer with a clue on those specialty machines.

Deere uses weathpack electrical connectors on everything which likely adds $1000 a unit cost to build but would be good on machines going from cold to warm all the time in the winter (if you've experienced electrical corrosion problems on your skid loaders).

 

[s120483]

We would trade yearly. U think this is too much on the CUT?

 

[s120483]

I think the standard width variants will work but I will look into the vineyard units. I think the one thing steering me to Kubota is the hydraulic quick coupler on the loader. They are the only ones offering this right?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

We would trade yearly. U think this is too much on the CUT?

CUTs are up to doing the work as well--but like your skid loaders, they will require daily greasing and scheduled maintenance.

What are the high points on maintenance you want to reduce?

Also, if you go with a CUT, you want to add just one to begin simply as a measure of risk management in case for unforeseen reasons, CUTs do not work out for you.

Case/NH CVT transmissions are also an option but with Deere, you can get a 66hp HST, Massey a 59hp HST, Kubota a 60hp HST where as Case is only at 50hp. All of them can lift 2,000 pounds and more but your lift height may be limited in comparison to your skid steers.

If standard widths work, then you can add Kioti, LS, Mahindra and so on to the list.

In the CUT space in the North American market Kubota is the best seller, followed by Kioti, then Deere and Massey. Kioti will cost less money and have nice cabs, great shop manuals but, as I said, only Deere weather packs every electrical connector and if your running in and out of heated buildings in the winter, condensation could mess up these things in time. However, you also said you're going to flip these things annually.

Given that, you may want to pull along side your accounting and ask if it is better to lease or buy given your ability to write off expenses.

 

[s120483]

We do grease daily and follow the manuals for maintenance. Our biggest issues on the skids are the tight quarters to work on the machine components, always having to tip the cab. The guys also get in and out around 50 times a day so it would be easier in a CUT vs a skid. Tire wear on the skids is extremely high. Hydraulic hoses break a lot from opposing forces turning the skid back and forth. Also new employees in a skid can do a lot of building damage.

Am I right only Kubota has the hydraulic attachment coupler?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

We do grease daily and follow the manuals for maintenance. Our biggest issues on the skids are the tight quarters to work on the machine components, always having to tip the cab. The guys also get in and out around 50 times a day so it would be easier in a CUT vs a skid. Tire wear on the skids is extremely high. Hydraulic hoses break a lot from opposing forces turning the skid back and forth. Also new employees in a skid can do a lot of building damage.

Am I right only Kubota has the hydraulic attachment coupler?

Before looking at tractors, have you looked at JCB's side entry skid steers? Way, way, way easier to get in and out of.

Neiber has an $8000 auto hitch for the L6060 that Kubota is dumb not to be marketing the crap out of it. Check it out.

 

[Dozernut]

If you look through past threads you will see other brands with the 3rd function remotes. As to whether these are factory or dealer installed I don't know, some are after market. The point is that you can get 3rd function on almost all CUT machines but you might have to have the dealer, your mechanic or yourself, install the valves and lines, but it is going to add to the cost.

 

[Dozernut]

My Kubota L4610 was the biggest cut offered when it was new. It has a loader capacity of 1800lbs, but will squeak by getting a one ton pallet off the truck by using the curl function. This is the max for this loader and you need lots of counter weight for this load capacity, it will not pick up that load to put on the truck. I usually have a backhoe mounted and hang 4 suitcase weights off the hoe bucket. This gives you good stability and significantly reduces the pucker factor.

The newer kubotas in the CUT size only offer one tractor with the rating you want and that is the MX5100 with a 2300lb loader rating, but it does not have the cab option. The L6060 might handle that weight rating but an owner would have to step in to confirm it as I don't know. To get the higher rated loaders you will have to step up to the M series tractors that are equipped with the hydraulic shuttle shift.

 

[boggen]

500' foot buildings,
pushing manure around / scraping it.
close quarter areas to get into
tire ware
over all maintenance of getting into parts that need to be repaired.

========================
toss a curve ball out there... but what about a regular fork lift, like what a ware house or loading dock might have?
--electric to gas to diesel engine. if ya having to deal with gas/diesel engine exhaust and keeping a constant air flow through building to meet various codes/regulations (epa, etc...) electric might be worth considering. at least for inside the shed work.
--it would have sharp turn radius (turn on a dime) much like a skid steer perhaps even better, might compare it to a "zero turn finishing mower for mowing your lawn" type turning radius.
--abilty to have solid rubber tires (no air / or foam foam filled) so more likely a tad more length of time between new tires more so if running on concrete floors. and not having to go through any large piles of manure. pending on tire manufacture and fork lift you might be able to find a different style of tread of tire that works better and keeps traction for you.
--a seat and walk in/out cab possibly
--would most likely come with all the bells and whistles to meet OSHA, EPA, and what ever other regulations / codes you might have to follow. (for lights, horns, back up alarms, etc... pre installed, or optional package, along with various work lights if needed for night time)

++about only issue would be is swapping out fork lift itself to a scrapper blade.
--google searched "fork lift attachment" then i clicked up on "images" and came across below
Fork Mounted Attachments - Material Handling Equipment Product Information - Fork Mounted Snow Plow Blades Forklift Attachment
--google search "forklift bucket attachments" and then i clicked up on images brings back a ton of scrapper blades to buckets for a forklift
--i would imagine a little bit more searching or contacting local metal fab workshop if ya don't have a maintenance crew not able to weld some stuff up. could figure out a easy way to build some plows / scrapper blades to fit on a fork lift.
--most places i have went to have some sort of "fork lift" training, i would imagine, if you needed it, it would be fairly easy to get info that someone has already made up and ready to go. from videos, to pictures, to hand outs, to general safety to maintenance, to tests folks would have to take.

++other issue with fork lifts, that really don't have a road gear for traveling a couple miles back and forth between areas quickly, i suppose the bigger fork lifts due, but if ya just keeping it around the property... *shrugs* i guess a forklift would compare to a skid steer, with overall how fast they can move, vs a SCUT or CUT that would more likely have a road gear in it.

side note i doubt you would want a high lift telescopic fork lift. but just a general duty fork lift.
=============
cleaning out a pig lot to cow lot, were ya got runny soup of a manure to, straw and poo tramped together into a tight sticky mess.... and getting up close under the lean to building, and into corners, and around the feeders / watering troughs... can be a chore, and normally requires moving feeders / water troughs around to some extent i would imagine? and i would guess a bigger need to move stuff around, with a SCUT or CUT like tractor with there larger turn radius. ... then dealing with that depth of view, that some folks simply do not have. and having to look around engine that is setting in front of you with a SCUT or CUT like tractor...

i suppose you might find a "narrow front end" think tricycle. 2 large rear tires, and then front tires set directly under engine in the front vs a wide front end, that is like a car / truck / what most folks most likely think of a tractor. and more considered a "row crop" style of tractor. with left and right steering brakes for rear tires, and power steering you can get zero turn like abilty. but there is a greater chance of tipping the suckers over, if you have a FEL (Front end loader)

you might come across a specialty tractor. were steering wheel and seat is turned 180 degrees, and it would be like constantly driving the tractor backwards.
===============
power trac (company) has a completely different setup than a typical tractor, were everything attaches to the front of the tractor, and like a skid steer or forlk lift, driver sets up in front, and engine is behind the driver. for line of sight ability. not sure on there turn radius though. *shrugs* something to consider possibly.

================
www.tractorhouse.com it is a biggest list i have found for tractors and there implements on the internet, from new to old units being sold. nearly everything an image you can look at to get some type of idea.

Construction Equipment For Sale at MachineryTrader.com: Dozers, Scrapers, Wheel Loaders, Excavators, Motor Graders, Caterpillar, Komatsu, Case, John Deere, Volvo sister site of tractorhouse above but for industrial equipment, (skid steers, lifts / fork lifts, etc..)

TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors gives a very basic overview info of many types of tractors out there. engine HP, tire sizes, transmission type, etc... it is by no means best way to compare stuff, but used a one of research and comparing tools can be helpful.

=================
double check your tranmission types ....

a power shuttle fully sync transmission, vs a HST, power shuttle might be a better choice more so if your workers are required to wear boots ankle high or higher, that pedal might get old quickly, rocking the HST pedal back and forth. for forward / reverse. with limiting ankle movement due to boots. power shuttle more likely has a lever by steering wheel to shift between forward / reverse. and then a go pedel (gas/throttle pedal) to speed up/slow down. with perhaps a couple gears to choose from if going with a SCUT or CUT like tractor.

=================
steering wheel vs levers
majorty of skid steers i see have a left and right levers/joysticks. to control direction and speed of the machine, along with operating the loader on it

going with a steering wheel itself, some employees may want to attach "steering wheel spinners/knobs" to make it easier to make sharp sudden turns. from employer stand point, these babies can do some damage to folks fingers / thumbs. if front tires hit something, and yank the steering wheel out of the operators hand. not to mention getting long sleeve shirts to winter jackets caught up in them. not to mention hitting elbow on them *arghs stinking funny bone* not sure of OSHA allows them or not anymore.

 

[chevy]

I my opinion, you need to stay with skid steers. They are heavier built & designed for this type of work.
You are talking about putting over 5000 hours a year on a machine. I have only seen that many hours on a couple of compacts. But they were 10 or more years old.

 

[J_J]

s120483,

Take a look at these units.

Versatile Tractors,Compact Tractors,Trailer Packages,Landscaping,Utility Vehicle Rentals,Mowers-Power Trac

 

[wolc123]

Certainly I would recommend sticking a toe in before jumping in all the way (if this is real). I would rent one for a week or so first, in the dead of winter if possible. Any CUT is far less maneuverable than a skid, so I doubt it will go over real well. Considering the frozen piles in the winter, on which any CUT is just about completely useless, I would say it is an out and out dumb idea on an operation of that size. In their futility, your operators will attempt to use "momentum" to break loose the piles, and that might destroy the loader in less than a day of operation. On the rental, see if you can pay a little more on an insurance policy that will cover any damages. Good luck.

 

[aczlan]

I would suggest looking at a compact wheel loader. Bobcat, Kubota, JCB and others make them.
As many have said, a CUT will not have the grunt to do the same job as a skidloader.

Aaron Z

 

[oosik]

Just a thought - What do other operations of your size use for this task? I seriously doubt that there are many members on this site with direct experience into a operation like yours.

 

[aczlan]

Just a thought - What do other operations of your size use for this task?

Most use a skidsteer, a compact wheel loader, or have a built in scraper system.

Aaron Z

 

[Sportsman762]

S120483, I would think that there would be several advantages to using a compact tractor in the application you mention. The initial purchase cost is less, and the resale % wise should be higher. The visibility is better of your surroundings in a tractor. A compact is easier to maintain as the components are more accessible. You will also most likely have a higher road speed with a compact tractor than a skid steer. A tractor will push more than an equivalent weight skid steer as they do not have to loose traction (skid) to turn. The compact tractor should also use less fuel because of the smaller engine (not that it is a factor). When looking at machines I would purchase the highest horse power unit in your desired frame size. I would go with a hydrostatic transmission as your new employees will find it easier to use. Also I would equip the machines with R4 tires. I know that several local dairy farmers are going with compacts to push manure with because of the lower operating costs and so far they seem satisfied with the choice. I would choose a green, blue, or orange machine because you will need the service that the mainline dealers are use to giving. Also if your application does not require a loader then I would mount the scraper directly on the front of the tractor to reduce maintenance areas.

There are only two major disadvantages:
One: is if there is a sharp turn in your aisle's this is where a skid steer has the advantage. But if you are pushing straight, or have gentle turns then I think giving a compact tractor a try might save you money.
Two: the skid steer can be used for lots of other activities: rock picking, bale handling, etc. that a compact tractor cannot do.

Also keep in mind that most of the people (including me) in this forum do not have direct experience with the demands of your application or the number of hours that you plan on putting on the machine.

 

[Roadbuilder6]

for that use I would suggest a Case 45b Cvt or get a compact wheel loader. Gehl, deere, Case all make good ones

 

[s120483]

We have a couple tight turns but have almost 15ft to accomplish this turn in. That is the tightest. We would mount a fold up rake to the three point for grooming the sand beds. On the front loader we need a power skid steer style coupler to switch from forks to scrape to feed push to broom to bucket. I think Kubota is the only loader that offers the power attachment coupler right? We switch attachments maybe 20-30 times a day. I think the most demanding thing we would do is about a month of frozen manure scraping in the winter. The skid steers handle this no problem at all. Would the CUT loader handle this? Basically just chipping the manure off of concrete. 90 percent if the year it is all liquid and flow able. I like that the guys would not be able to just spin around in the alley as this usually accounts for a lot of broken freestalls. Would the hydro trans handle the amount of use we are talking? Or too much wear even with best maintenance? Does hydro perform ok in cold weather? Our environment is semi corrosive since a lot of liquid manure and sand will splash all over it and freeze in the winter. They get washed every other day or so. Visibility is a big advantage of CUT. Lots of our skid steer break downs are from hitting things that cause damage to the facility and machine. Lot of forward and reverse work so visibility is a big deal.