Damage from toppling a tractor?

[jwk]

I'll start off saying that I feel like an idiot. But I was doing some front end loader work and put my tractor on it's side. The good thing is i didn't get hurt, and I learned a valuable lesson. The question I have is what type of damage could I have done to the tractor by doing that? The only visual item I saw was the front right tire seal got broken from the rim. I'm wondering if any internal engine or other mechanical damage could occur from fluid loss or shifting or mixing, whatever.

 

[RoyJackson]

Roll it back on it's tires, let it set for a few hours (for any oil to drain back down. Check your fluids in the interim. And, fix that tire, of course...
As long as you don't see any visible damage, you should start it.

If FireKraKer had let his tractor set for a bit, he may not have experienced the smoking problem he had.

BTW, do check the oil in a few hours (after running it). I doubt if any coolant could have got past the rings...but you never know.

And do expect some smoke. But it shouldn't be much or last too long.

 

[dbdartman]

Biggest fear would be oil in one or more cylinders. If it was a gas engine, I'd pull the plugs & jump the starter relay to spin the engine over. Diesel, I'd pull the injectors & jump the starter relay. As stated in this & the post by FireKraKer, liquid doesn't compress. If there's liquid in any cylinders, VERY bad things will happen if/when you try to start it.

 

[RoyJackson]

BTW, have you started it yet?
If you have, and it hasn't blown the head off...well, there's no liquid in the cylinders.
I'm not recommending pulling the injectors...I'd pull the glow plugs (if your machine has them)

 

[D7E]

How long did it run for on it's side , I've seen many tipped all shapes with little more than light cosmetic work ,But all have had a good driver who stopped it immediateley or had a safetey switch that shuts down the motor when oil pressure drops , Many tractors are " blue smokers " after a roll but only if you let em run too long with no oil in the sump.

 

[TedLaRue]

RoyJackson said:
BTW, do check the oil in a few hours (after running it). I doubt if any coolant could have got past the rings...but you never know.

Roy, maybe I'm confused. How could coolant get near the rings? I'm guessing you meant oil?


D7E is asking the critical question. If it ran for some time with the oil pan on its side you may have done some damage because the engine was starving for oil. Hopefully the engine died quickly (maybe the injector pump reservoir quit providing fuel?).

If oil leaked into the cylinder, the starter probably wouldn't be able to turn the engine over enough for a cylinder to fire (the oil wouldn't compress on the compression stroke for that cylinder). But I agree with Roy that you should pull the spark plugs or glow plugs and crank the engine a few revolutions before trying to start it. Don't be looking down the spark/glow plug hole while someone else cranks the engine!

 

[RoyJackson]

Roy, maybe I'm confused. How could coolant get near the rings? I'm guessing you meant oil?



If oil leaked into the cylinder, the starter probably wouldn't be able to turn the engine over enough for a cylinder to fire (the oil wouldn't compress on the compression stroke for that cylinder). But I agree with Roy that you should pull the spark plugs or glow plugs and crank the engine a few revolutions before trying to start it. Don't be looking down the spark/glow plug hole while someone else cranks the engine!

Yeah, you're right...I didn't proof read the post...Duhhhhh!

As far as the engine turning with oil filling the volume above the piston...well, never saw that. I did see the result of a diesel that had some oil in the compression section of the cylinder. It wasn't pretty...as dbdartman wrote...liquids don't compress. The head was warped (this was a long time ago and the diesel was in an Mercedes sedan. What I don't know is if the head was warped as a result of trying to start or if it was the cause of the oil in the cylinder. Anyway, that was the end of that head.
I'm guessing here...if the engine is on it's side or inverted for only a short period of time...it's probably safe to let it set, drain down and start.
But, there's always a risk. The safest course of action is to remove the glow plugs to allow any oil (or other liquid) to escape.
I wonder what the old farmers and operators think?

 

[john_bud]

Yep, Aside from changing underwear and ironing out the grip mark in the seat, you do need to pull the glow plugs prior to starting. (Or let it set upright 24 hours.) Of course, there is the possiblity that there is not enough oil in there to cause a problem. If you can manually turn the engine thru 360 degrees using the crank bolt and a long breaker bar, you are good to go.

Do check all fluid levels prior to attempting to run the machine.

By the way, the thick deck iron head won't "blow off". The connecting rod will possibly bend and the crank may suffer some damage. Usually, just the connecting rod.

 

[LOOPHOLE]

2 tractors turned over within 1-2 days apart and no injuries/Amazing !

 

[Spiveyman]

Yep - real lucky. You may not want to go into details in the thread, as it may be embarassing, but perhaps you could post a tip or two on things you learned not to do in the future. The reason I ask is that I'm getting a FEL for my tractor this weekend and have already had thoughts about how it will drive differently and what precautions to take. Perhaps I should just start a thread... anyway, just a thought if you care to share, it might save some others of us out here from suffering the same fate. Good luck with her.

 

[john_bud]

Start a thread in owning and operating. I'm sure you'll get the info .
jb

 

[ustobefarmer]

This is one of the good reason not to disconnect the seat safety switch. I turn my TC 40 on it's side a couple of years ago. When I got off the seat the engine stopped before the tractor landed on it's side. Needless to say I had to change my pants after that. We turned it back over with a wrecker and let it sit a couple of hours. Then I checked the fluid levels and everything was OK. I started up and everything worked ok.

 

[D7E]

Yeah, you're right...I didn't proof read the post...Duhhhhh!

As far as the engine turning with oil filling the volume above the piston...well, never saw that.

It can happen , If oil gets on top of a piston ,I've had many bent push-rods from this ?

 

[MJPetersen]

I short blocked a Cat 3208 in an end dump that had turned on its side and then they tried to start it after putting it back on its feet. Bent a connecting rod which the next day was thrown through the side of the block. Ugly mess!!

So Yes oil can get in the top side of the pistons and if it does, it will create havok.

Mike

 

[orezok]

If you can manually turn the engine thru 360 degrees using the crank bolt and a long breaker bar, you are good to go.

You'll need to rotate it 720 degrees to be sure all cylinders go through a compression stroke.

 

[MJPetersen]

While it is true that 720 degrees would be necessary for all cylinders to go through compression, it is also true that each piston will have been at the top of the cylinder either on compression or with an exhaust open. That also would do it. It is also true that only a rev or two could leave significant oil still in cylinder, but not enough to cause harm.

The obvious thing to do in the case of a roll over is to pull the compression release and then crank it a few revs. That will clear the cylinders and bring up oil pressure.

Mike

 

[RoyJackson]

The obvious thing to do in the case of a roll over is to pull the compression release and then crank it a few revs. That will clear the cylinders and bring up oil pressure.

Mike

Not all tractors have a compression release. I've never seen one on a CUT.

 

[tallyho8]

Not all tractors have a compression release. I've never seen one on a CUT.

Almost all Yanmars CUTs have a compression release. I am not familiar with other brands.

 

[3RRL]

Not all tractors have a compression release. I've never seen one on a CUT.

You are probably right Roysince I'm not familiar with other tractors, but my Kama and other Chinese tractors like Jinma have them too.
Originally designed for ease of starting but I've found it can help pre-lube the engine when cranking it over in the mornings. Turning the engine over a few times gets oil pumping into the bearing journals without load imposed by a firing piston. Of course I don't use it all the time during the rest of the day.

 

[D7E]

I short blocked a Cat 3208 in an end dump that had turned on its side and then they tried to start it after putting it back on its feet. Bent a connecting rod which the next day was thrown through the side of the block. Ugly mess!!

So Yes oil can get in the top side of the pistons and if it does, it will create havok.

Mike

You don't need to put a 3208 on it's side for it to do this ...HaHa A guy i know had a 3208 in a tractor and and it had both heads replaced , 200 hrs later it punched a con-rod out through the block ,Rebuilt again and another 1000 hours and a piston hit a valve ,He had it rebuilt 1 more time and sold it to me and it's done 3500 hrs beautifully .