Dangerous times even in small town

[Fuddy1952]

Amen to that.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go HUNTING bears with even a .44magnum, but I sure as heck would not hesitate to cut down on one if I felt he was going to harm me. A key to shooting large tought animals with a handgun is having proper ammo. Buffalo Bore 300 grainers (solids) for the bruin would be far more effective than most hollow point ammo. You need penetration not expansion.

We have black bears at our place, I've gotten them on a hunter cam close to the house. Most animals don't bother you. A friend and I outside talking late at night sitting near the lake had a mountain lion walk right between us.
Bears I think of two things...in the 60s in Jackson Wy I saw this HUGE polar bear on display a guy killed with a .44 magnum.
Another time we're camping in the Smoky mountains when we hear all this commotion. A bear went into someone's tent and ripped top off of a metal Coleman cooler and was eating bacon. This little "Barney Fife" like ranger comes along, picks up a stick and drives bear back into the woods whacking it on the back. So funny but it worked!

 

[dmccarty]

just a few days ago a local 74 year old lady calls 911 to report someone breaking into her home. Kansas woman, 74, fatally shoots burglar; has heart attack | The Kansas City Star

There is a similar case in rural Ireland that is going through the court system right now. A 60ish year old man arrived at his house and found a strange car park at the front of the house and the front door kicked in.

For the most part, rural Irish houses are built close to the road, course may houses in towns/cities might only have the sidewalk between the house and road, maybe a bit of "garden" which is not very big and don't really make much difference space wise. Point being the homeowner should have been able to see the strange car as the pulled in from the road. You would think this would make the homes some what safer from burglary because anyone passing on the road can easily see the front and sides of houses.

So the home owner saw the burglars, went and got a shovel in case he was attacked. He really should have just got back in the car and called the Garda. Unfortunately, he had a heart attack. His sister lived with him, was with him in the car and started CPR. The thugs left the house and sped off. She tried to get them to help but of course they did not. The Garda has arrested 3 or the 4 men. The homeowner died, his heart was in pretty bad shape and the stress of the burglary caused the heart attack.

At least one of the arrested lived on a halting site. Another of the thugs was his cousin. A halting site is land that has been set up for Irish Travelers/Gypsies. My impression is that the halting sites were set up so that the Travelers had a place to stop with their horses and wagons. But the photos I have seen show a walled compound segmented off into family area that are walled and with permanent structures to live in. There is a group of Travelers in the south of Ireland that have been given a group of very nice houses but they refuse to move in because they were not given space/barns to hold their horses. :confused3::shocked: This is in a country with HUGE housing shortages that gets daily front page headlines. The Travelers and Ireland I just do not understand.

What I do understand is that the Travelers have criminal elements and violent feuds among themselves.

Later,
Dan

 

[kcflhrc]

Here in KC they would have shot her from the car and then robbed her.

 

[k0ua]

We have black bears at our place, I've gotten them on a hunter cam close to the house. Most animals don't bother you. A friend and I outside talking late at night sitting near the lake had a mountain lion walk right between us.
Bears I think of two things...in the 60s in Jackson Wy I saw this HUGE polar bear on display a guy killed with a .44 magnum.
Another time we're camping in the Smoky mountains when we hear all this commotion. A bear went into someone's tent and ripped top off of a metal Coleman cooler and was eating bacon. This little "Barney Fife" like ranger comes along, picks up a stick and drives bear back into the woods whacking it on the back. So funny but it worked!

A friend of mine killed a polar bear in Greenland with a .45 ACP. Not exactly considered enough gun for a polar bear for sure. He was in the Air Force, and carried the .45 auto on his work assignment. (obviously this was many years ago before the military adopted the 9mm). I asked him how many times he shot it, and he replied he shot until the slide locked back and the pistol was empty. Better than a sharpened stick.

 

[plowhog]

There are apparently more firearm vs spray studies now, with greater samplings. And plenty of "ammo" for those pro-firearm vs pro-bear spray. Here is an abstract of one study, followed by some links to three studies. Note that most research is in Alaska, apparently due to large bear populations and encounters. So some of the stats include grizzly bear encounters as well.

We compiled, summarized, and reviewed 269 incidents of bear-human conflict involving firearms that occurred in Alaska during 1883-2009. Encounters involving brown bears (Ursus arctos; 218 incidents, 81%), black bears (Ursus americanus; 30 incidents, 11%), polar bears (Ursus maritimus; 6 incidents, 2%), and 15 (6%) unidentified species provided insight into firearms success and failure. A total of 444 people and at least 367 bears were involved in these incidents. We found no significant difference in success rates (i.e., success being when the bear was stopped in its aggressive behavior) associated with long guns (76%) and handguns (84%). Moreover, firearm bearers suffered the same injury rates in close encounters with bears whether they used their firearms or not. Bears were killed in 61% (n = 162) of bear-firearms incidents. Additionally, we identified multiple reasons for firearms failing to stop an aggressive bear. Using logistic regression, the best model for predicting a successful outcome for firearm users included species and cohort of bear, human activity at time of encounter, whether or not the bear charged, and if fish or game meat was present. Firearm variables (e.g., type of gun, number of shots) were not useful in predicting outcomes in bear-firearms incidents. Although firearms have failed to protect some users, they are the only deterrent that can lethally stop an aggressive bear. Where firearms have failed to protect people, we identified contributing causes. Our findings suggest that only those proficient in firearms use should rely on them for protection in bear country.

https://above.nasa.gov/safety/documents/Bear/bearspray_vs_bullets.pdf
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf
ResearchGate

 

[shooterdon]

plowhog,
Thanks for posting that.

Note that only 11% of those bears were black bears. The “safest” bear to encounter, unless a sow with a cub. Otherwise, they want no part of a human unless they are wounded, or being attacked by a pack of dogs. Also the easiest bear to kill and the most prevalent in the lower 48.

I live in black bear country and normally carry in the spring when working outdoors in case I get between a cub and sow. I do not worry about bears at other times of the year. A young girl was attacked and killed last year but I do not know the complete story.

 

[ultrarunner]

Daughter, now 32, was a HS senior when she was approached at a gas station by a couple guys asking for directions. Said they were from Tennessee and she looked at their car and said why do you have Illinois plates. We are in KY. They started approaching her closer and she pulled the nozzle out of the car and pointed it at them. Told them she would soak them down with gasoline. They left cussing her. I appreciated her bravery but told her the next time to run inside the station.

RSKY

Had to do the same with a deranged 5150 recently released from the Metal Hospital 3 blocks away.

 

[prof fate]

Bear or human, to STOP it yuo need to hit the spinal cord/brain/heart. Anthing else is a bleeding wound and it can 10 minutes to bleed out- and for most of that 10 it will keep fighting you.

Unlike a person that may back down when warned or shot once (who want shot twice?) animals don't know that.

GO hunting - deer hit with a rifle can go a good distance before dropping. Bears often being bigger it takes more energy to get the bullet to a vital area, and just as long to bleed out.

I used to believe the same thing. Then I read the study with actual case examples. Now I believe a handgun round will wound and enrage a bear to kill you in retaliation. Not really what I want to do.

I've encountered many black bears while deep in the woods. They have always seemed more afraid of me than me of them. Even if you encounter a bear with aggressive habits they are somewhat easy to distract. If I was holding a pistol and a can of bear spray, I'd holster the pistol and blast away with the bear spray-- if even needed at all.

 

[plowhog]

in case I get between a cub and sow. I do not worry about bears at other times of the year.

We have Mom and two cubs on the property this year. Pretty close to the house eating from the apple trees-- I steer completely clear of that. I once shined a flashlight in Mom's face one night a few months ago and she stopped what she was doing, and froze while staring at me -- not a good sign. I switched off the light and retreated to the house.

From what I know, individual black bears are very unlikely to be, or get, into "predator mode." If they are not in that mode-- scaring them away is usually pretty easy. There is the occasional black bear that will get into predator mode-- ripping into tents looking for anything to eat. At that point it is battle stations, but again that is very, very rare from what I have read.

 

[Pawatch]

There are plenty of "predators" every where you go. We aren't really "safe" out here in the rural areas, and never really were. You make your own safety.

Excellent statement!!