Dead perkins....(ie, help...)

Anonymous Poster · Jan 31, 2003

Richard, I have a JCB 1400B fullsize TLB and had a similar problem, it would start up fine run fwd or reverse for a while and then die. I would then start it back up and then move again and it would die again.

I thought it had to be electrical problem more than fuel delivery issue as it would start up and go.

It turned out my shifter lever was shot. No power there means no power beyond to the relays to energize the solenoids coils on top of the tranny which in turns kills the engine (a gentleman that worked on JCB's told me this could be the issue)

You may want to check into this as well, a new shift lever is a $250 part though

What year and model JCB backhoe do you have?

Good luck!

Gary

Richard · Feb 1, 2003

Dan: If the cold WERE to have created some "wax" in the filter... would that "clear out", when the temperatures warmed up? (it is a new filter as per this past summer, AND I DO have some amount (sufficient is another question) of fuel conditioner in tank). So, if it waxes up... does that stay put and only way to clean it out, is new filter? Is wax buildup visibly obvious? I have the glass bowl under filter for water... would it possibly be visible in there?

Gary: I 'think' it's about a 1987, 1550-B, 2 wheel drive w/cab (and most glass broken) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif. Bought it from TVA at auction (Tennessee Valley Authority). had about 1,850 hours on it, now has roughly 2,200. 2 foot hoe bucket, and the loader is 8 feet wide... Digging depth 15 1/2 feet. Oh, and when all is well, starts like "immediately" /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif and runs smoother than a swiss watch /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Interesting comment on the shift lever. It DID have a broken wire on it 1 1/2 years ago that I soldered. As I recall..it "worked" fine (started).. but this wire prevented it from engaging into gear (I think).

Interesting comment about that maybe being an issue. I'll have to look into that (after the filter...)

Richard

Anonymous Poster · Feb 1, 2003

I would check all wires going from the lever down to the selinoids for cracks, one little crack will cause problems.

From what I was told JCB's are good backhoes but have poor electrical systems compared to Cat and Deere hoe's.

The Perkins motors seem to purr like kittens, mine always starts right up and has plenty of power and I show 5000+ hours /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I too bought my 1400B at an auction for a great price and it has 4x4 , its the best toy I have bought too date /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keep me posted as to what you find out!! JCB owners like us gotta stick together!

Gary

Richard · Mar 1, 2003

Well, I more than anyone hate to revisit this thread /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I've used Brutus once/twice since this stalling episode. Both times, it was puttering out to the field and simply using bucket to carry split firewood, so no real demands on any of it's systems.

Today, I went to SAME field, picked up tree to move it to back side of farm. Had machine in 1st gear (suck fuel faster I presume), got 100 yards and blub blub blub.... died.

Sadly, I also have a withering battery (which is only 2 months old /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif) so I walk back to house, get cables, car.. AND new fuel filter.

Change filter, tinker with the bleader... wont start yet. Wonder if pump is PUMPING fuel (the fuel tank pump, not injector), so take off pressure side, and steady pulses of fuel pulsate out. Tinker.. crank, tinker, crank... vroom.

Now I got it started... leave idleing as I take car home and walk back. Start my way up small slope to take tree back where I"m going to put it.. blub blub blub... dies again.

(dont forget about my dead battery and my car back at house /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) So, ultimately, I yank battery out and lug that darn thing all way home to put onto charger /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Ok.. WHILE it's running, other than the stall, it runs absolutely fine and like a watch. I have a new fuel filter, so that rules that angle out. It's been 40 plus, so I have no frozen water, nor gelled fuel.

I am thinking I might have a "flake" or something in the passage ways of the injector pump, if in fact, I DO, are those things easy to remove & clean? or even maybe just open a pressure port and hope something BLOWS out?

As far as I can tell, I'm getting decent flow to the injectors when it's running, but obviously, it's difficult to tell after they are tightened down and you are driving the machine.

Also, I wondered if an air filter obstruction (none visible) might cause this? My thinking is though it might "stall" it, once stalled and the air has time to equalize, it ought to either start right back up, or at least burp...

I'm reasonably confident this is fuel related as again, when the engine is cranking over (and not starting) there are no puffs of smoke, no nothing coming from the exhaust.

/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Again, I hate more than anyone to bring this thread back, and appreciate any thoughts anyone might have.

1 thought I had, was maybe take injector pump off (is that hard?) and take to dealer to have them "test" it (can they be tested like that?).

As per comment of electrical wiring, so far, my experience has been that prevents the starter from engaging, rather than to shut fuel flow down. As far as I know, this has a mechanical injector pump so I presume if the engine is cranking over, it's pumping.. just that simple.

Richard

NIXON · Mar 1, 2003

This may ,or may not be of help, but here goes for what it's worth . I used to run a an IHC loadstar with a 6.9 diesel .
Every now and again it would just die . It was in and out of the shop a bunch of times , but it kept doing it . There was no particular pattern . Anyway I got tired of paying the shop . One day it did it and I cracked open a fuel line . To my surprise .. No fuel just a sucking sound . I drained and removed the fuel tank. Pulled out the feed line and there was debris in it . Checked the tank and it had junk in it as well . Apparently when the fuel sloshed around it would allow trash to enter the fuel pick up . when you cracked a line or pulled off the filters it would allow the debris to drop out of the line . ( the trash was paper ) it never showed up in the filters .
Hope this helped . John

Richard · Mar 1, 2003

More info if it helps..

Recharged battery today, reinstalled battery hit starter.. engine rotated quickly, but did not fire off. (it usually lights off within what sounds to be 1 or 2 revolutions.. very quick to light off)

I had my little propane torch with me, so I took air precleaner off, turned propane on just a TOUCH, wafted it near the thoat while cranking engine.

Took a moment, but the second the engine burped, I pulled propane away and it gurgled a second, lurched to life and ran absolutely fine from then til now. Restarted like a champ, and buzzed up and down the big driveway hill. Todays use was again, a big wheel barrow carrying split wood to the woodpile, so it didn't have any long winded rpm's driving down the road.

Sigh...
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Someone want to be paid to take this off my hands?
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Richard · Mar 8, 2003

Let me give my thought process, see if I might be near any mark..

1. machine starts fine (and quickly) when cold
2. Driving up road, will get to approximately same location before dying out on me.
3. As per #2, I am pretty focused now on a fuel issue.
4. Today, I found what seems to be a sediment bowl next to fuel tank, removed it, filled with sludge. (no filter here, just glass bowl)
5. When above bowl was removed, fuel flowed freely onto ground. (Ostensibly proving there is no plugging up between tank and this sediment bowl)
6. Following line forward, taking off at fuel pump, fuel pulses out with rotation of engine. Fuel fine to here.
7. Filter assembly prior to pump has 5 lines, 4 big, 1 small. 4 big, main in, main return (to tank?). Secondary TO injector pump, secondary return from pump. The last one, is from the overflow tube that runs to each injector. Now here is where it get's interesting to me, and keeps me wondring about maybe NOT obstructon, but air. The fuel rail has this return line that heads to back of engine. On last cylinder, there's a "Y" in it. One of the arms heads to the top of the fuel filter assembly, the other fork actually drips back to fuel tank and is a clear "plastic" type line. This is what I found interesting.... I found intermittent air bubbles coming OUT of the 4th injector and into the fuel return line to the tank. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif How on earth am I getting air OUT of this line if I'm not somehow getting air INTO the line? All connections seem to be tight and NOTHING was done to any connection just prior to me having this problem. This issue has cropped up from thin air (pun not intended /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

My 2 lines of focus are the air bubbles, or obstruction with bubbles being my first aim.

Is there any way to "test" for air coming OUT of the pump itself? (to isolate pre/post pump)?

Is it reasonable to have the air bubbles (slow and intermittent) coming out of the 4th injector? logic says no, but logic says I should be President, or at least as rich as Bill Gates. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for any input/thoughts.

Richard

smokey · Mar 8, 2003

My MF135 Perkins AD3-152 motor has a conical mesh filter on the fuel cock at the tank and a fine mesh filter above the low pressure fuel pump bowl. These are hard to see unless you know they are there and are before the CAV filters. I had a similar problem when I fitted another fuel tank that had been in a fire and was full of carbon material.

Richard · Mar 9, 2003

Ok Dudes.. the issue seems to clarifying?

Long story short, runs/dies. Recall the air bubbles in the return tube to tank?

Today, took off to woods with wifey to get some rocks, died.

Unscrewed 2 injectors, got some fuel sqirting, fired up.

Drove it, died. Repeated above proceedure and fired up again. Might have taken 2 or 3 attempts to crank it, but did NOT take the 10/15 minutes of waiting it took other day. It died probably 5 times on way to woods, each time, did this proceedure and each time, 2 or 3 cranks...fired up.

I think I have found some element of cause/effect. So, not the questin is, how is air getting into system?