Dead PT-425

   / Dead PT-425 #1  

SnowRidge

Elite Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2003
Messages
2,818
Location
East Tennessee
Tractor
Power Trac PT-425 / Branson 3520
Our PT-425 did the unforgivable--it died. Well, actually it half died. The left cylinder bent the exhaust pushrod, which caused quite a bit of clatter. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

A compression test revealed zero, nada, zip compression in the left cylinder, so something besides the pushrod seems to have gone south. The engine is out and it goes to the shop tomorrow.

I've attached a pic of the pushrod and its lifter.

I'll keep everyone posted.

SnowRidge
 

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   / Dead PT-425 #2  
Wow! That's really disappointing. I know you purchased yours just before me last year, so I know you're within the warrantee period. Dare I ask what was going on at the time of failure? That seems like a heat-related failure, or would you attribute it to something else?

Sincerely,

Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Dead PT-425 #3  
Sorry to hear this news. Keep us posted on what the cause was and repair.
PJ
 
   / Dead PT-425 #4  
Sorry to hear of your engine troubles. Please keep us posted. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
   / Dead PT-425
  • Thread Starter
#5  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Dare I ask what was going on at the time of failure? That seems like a heat-related failure, or would you attribute it to something else? )</font>

I was mowing one of our tree plantations without problems. I stopped to take care of something. When I restarted the engine a minute or two later, I had almost no power, so the failure seems to have occurred at startup.

Once I took off my hearing protector, it became obvious that something was clattering in the right cylinder (I said left side in my post last night--that was a brain-lock on my part), so I pulled the valve cover and found the bent pushrod. It was no longer under the rocker arm and had been jumping around. The rocker arm stud was loose, and I removed it with just my fingers.

From the discoloration, I suspect it is a heat related failure. I immediately checked the engine shroud for obstructions, but there weren't any. There may have been oil starvation to that cylinder. I'll have to wait and see what the engine shop says before I know for sure.

I can't see any obvious damage beyond the bent pushrod, but that cylinder has no compression whatsoever, so something serious seems to be going on. The owner of the Kohler repair shop that will look into it said it sounded like a valve guide problem, but he hadn't seen the engine at that point, so time will tell.

I did a lot of Googling after this happened and found that the Kohler 25 has had a history of problems. Searching through some of the postings on the sites frequented by the lawn care pros was eye opening. Early on, this engine seems to have had numerous issues, including blown head gaskets, lifter failures, bent pushrods, ignition modules blowing, etc., with most occurring within the first 200 hours. Mine had 110 hours when it went.

Supposedly, all these problems have been taken care of in the current production models. I certainly hope that is the case, and that this is an isolated problem.

We will see.

SnowRidge
 
   / Dead PT-425
  • Thread Starter
#6  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sorry to hear this news. Keep us posted on what the cause was and repair. )</font>

Thanks, I will do that.

SnowRidge
 
   / Dead PT-425
  • Thread Starter
#7  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sorry to hear of your engine troubles. Please keep us posted. )</font>

You can be sure I will--especially since you are the one that "spent our money" to buy the PT. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I will probably also do a post on the issues of trying to get warranty service on a PT engine. It, er, um, turns out to be somewhat complicated, but I will wait until this saga is over before posting.

I am also thinking about doing a post on how to pull the engine from the PT-425 if anyone is interested. Hint: It isn't as straightfoward as it might seem.

Pic attached.

SnowRidge
 

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   / Dead PT-425 #8  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am also thinking about doing a post on how to pull the engine from the PT-425 if anyone is interested. Hint: It isn't as straightfoward as it might seem.
)</font>

Ain't it the truth? If you get one tractor you need another one to fix the first one or take its place when needed. If you get one car to work on you need a second when you're fixing the first.

Or you could be like Bob and just buy six of each! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Dead PT-425 #9  
Sorry about your engine. I too will be curious to see how the waranty and repair process go for you. Not to change the post too much, but I notice in your pic that you also have a CUT. I have heard from MossRoad and Bob_Skurka their comparisons of CUT vs PT, but I don't remember one from you. What is your opinion, CUT vs PT???
Maybe I should ask a different question, "When your PT was alive /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif, how much time did you spend on the PT vs the CUT?"

Again, sorry for you engine trouble.
 
   / Dead PT-425 #10  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I did a lot of Googling after this happened and found that the Kohler 25 has had a history of problems. Searching through some of the postings on the sites frequented by the lawn care pros was eye opening. Early on, this engine seems to have had numerous issues, including blown head gaskets, lifter failures, bent pushrods, ignition modules blowing, etc., with most occurring within the first 200 hours. Mine had 110 hours when it went. )</font>

Snowridge -

Can you share some of the better sites you found? I'd love to read up on it as well. BTW, what kind of oil were you using (just curious)?

Sincerely,

Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Dead PT-425 #11  
<font color="blue"> Pic attached.</font>

AHHHG! You ripped it's heart out!
 
   / Dead PT-425 #12  
<font color="blue"> with most occurring within the first 200 hours. Mine had 110 hours when it went.

Supposedly, all these problems have been taken care of in the current production models. </font>

I hope it is an isolated incident, as mine is older than yours. Again, sorry to hear of your troubles. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
   / Dead PT-425
  • Thread Starter
#13  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "When your PT was alive , how much time did you spend on the PT vs the CUT?" )</font>

The CUT is a Branson 3520. It was delivered in late February of last year. We picked up the PT-425 last June. The CUT has a shade over 50 hours, the PT has 110.

We bought the PT to mow our Xmas tree plantations. The Branson is simply too big to fit between the trees. Almost all of the hours on the PT are from mowing.

SnowRidge
 
   / Dead PT-425
  • Thread Starter
#14  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Can you share some of the better sites you found? I'd love to read up on it as well. BTW, what kind of oil were you using (just curious)? )</font>

The only ones I can recall specifically were LawnSite and Precise Engine Repair. There were some others, but they escape me.

I did note that one or two of the sites had problems with their search features. They were not consistent. For example, I found one guy talking about replacing a bent pushrod himself rather than waiting for a busy shop to schedule him for warranty work. When I tried to find the post later, it didn't show up.

I was using Havoline 10W30. I may switch to synthetic, though. It looks like a fair number of the mower pros use it in their Kohlers.

SnowRidge
 
   / Dead PT-425
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I hauled the Kohler to the small engine repair shop yesterday afternoon. The owner said, "About a week."

Now I get to wait. Spring is a lousy time to break any kind of small engine powered equipment in East Tennessee. Some of the shops are backed up three to four weeks. I feel lucky to get the one week estimate.

SnowRidge
 
   / Dead PT-425 #16  
HI Snow Sorry to hear about your PT. Ive had it happen on my Zero turn. 25 Hp kohler. It should be a quick fix.
I think because of the time of year its busy at there shop.
They could of make the repair with your motor in the machine, not to bum you out. From what i gather its cause by hydro lock in the lifter. A new style push rod which allows the oil to flow better will fix the problem. I do run mobil 1 fully syntetic oil in all my 5 25 hp kohlers. Have them test it before you leave if you can. Ive seen it bent on start up again if they didnt take the pressure off the lifter. good luck
 
   / Dead PT-425
  • Thread Starter
#17  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( They could of make the repair with your motor in the machine, not to bum you out )</font>

It's a possibility, but there are other issues. The bad cylinder has no compression and will likely require a head removal at a minimum. Lots of stuff needs to come off anyway, just to get working room. It's not much additional work to pull the engine.

Then there is the issue of getting 1,400 lbs of dead PT up the (steep) ramp into the shop. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

For these and some other reasons, it just seemed simpler to pull the engine and take it in. It also allowed me to take it to a shop that was backed up one week instead of one that was backed up four weeks.

And not to sound like a *********, but I kind of enjoyed pulling it. I also learned quite a bit about how PTs are put together and found some things that I didn't know were going on.

So I'm bummed that the engine has a problem, /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif but I'm not sorry I pulled it out. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A new style push rod which allows the oil to flow better will fix the problem )</font>

I think mine is new enough that it should already have the new style pushrod and other improvements that Kohler made.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Have them test it before you leave if you can. Ive seen it bent on start up again if they didnt take the pressure off the lifter. )</font>

They've agreed to do that. The shop I took it to has the ability to bench run engines.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I do run mobil 1 fully syntetic oil in all my 5 25 hp kohlers. good luck )</font>

That's good info. I've been thinking of going to Mobil 1. Thanks.for the input.

SnowRidge

.
 
   / Dead PT-425 #18  
I also run Mobil 1 in ours. I switched to that at about 25 hours. It does spin the engine over very well in cold temperatures, and I attribute that to the thinner viscosity when it is cold, however, I have no scientific way of knowing if it has any benefits.
 
   / Dead PT-425 #19  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I also run Mobil 1 in ours. I switched to that at about 25 hours. It does spin the engine over very well in cold temperatures, and I attribute that to the thinner viscosity when it is cold, however, I have no scientific way of knowing if it has any benefits. )</font>

I have also switched to Mobil 1. I switched over at around 10 hours. It does seem to turn over well in the winter, and the tests I've read indicate that it has superior lubricity. Time will tell!

I did have a motorcycle that I ran the living daylights out of, and I ran Mobil 1 in it. It worked really well. I also had a sports coupe that I kept for many years - I put nearly 100K miles on it, and it never broke down, and never gave me any problems. In fact, when I sold it, the shop did a compression test and overall check, and they said it was one of the cleanest engines they had every seen, and that compression was stellar.

We'll see.

Sincerely,

Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Dead PT-425 #20  
My next door nieghbor had the same thing happen to his 20hp Kohler, it had about the same time as yours. They took care of him under warranty very well.
 

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