Deal or no deal--farmpro

[EE_Bota]

A buddy was interested in the trailer, and was willing to give $1500, and I offered the $8000. So that is $9500 total, but he insists he really needs $10K. I left it as "you are getting offers still, and we are still thinking...so you may very well get what you want out of it, and I hope so."

My buddy asked what we should do...I said "you should look at more trailers and I should look at more tractors, and see what that does to our motivation."

I like the guy, and I hope he gets the 10K he wants/needs. But I need to arrive at any improvement in my offer for my own reasons.

I checked the engine oil, it was clean as a whistle. I checked the radiator fluid, and it looked clean, but the cap was rusty inside, and crap fell into the radiator. I tried to fish most of that out, and scrape most of the large chunks of rust off the radiator cap. That cap should not be badly rusted inside. Stuff like that can eat up a deal after a while.

 

[greg_g]

Yeah, that $900 trailer I cited was the used price. But that was back when Sikeston 7500 GVWR tandems w/brakes sold for $1300 new. Given that Tommy's selling new for $1900, then I'd say $1300 would be a fair used price.

You said "batteries" plural. That means two six volters. Given that you only measured 6.31v, either one battery is bad - or the jumper connection between batteries is dirty. Most folks replace the two 6v with one 12v. Minimum 750CCA assuming pre-heater and compression release. Higher amperage if tractor isn't equipped with one or both.

Two pumps up front; one should be a dedicated steering pump, the other for the loader and rear lift. The one above the PTO spline actually is a PTO pump; it's simply fitted to the aux PTO shaft. If kicking in the clutch stops that pump, then the tractor does have a 2 stage clutch. But it's not the main tractor pump, that job goes to one of the pair up front. Follow the lines to see which one is dedicated to steering, then by default the other will be the main pump.

The knob under the seat is a flow control valve, but its only job is to control the rate of fall of the rear lift. It should not affect loader operation. However that hex head on the side might. It just depends if you've got a single hydraulic remote (a short L-shaped pipe) coming out of the side of the lift housing. If you do, that hex head is a diverter valve. It switches the flow between the loader/rear lift and the L-shaped remote. If it's in the wrong position, all fluid is directed to the remote (technically going nowhere) and none to the loader and/or lift.

Not having seen the tractor myself - I'm not saying that this tractor is equipped in this manner. But - if true - it's another possible reason the lift and loader didn't work. A 3rd reason could be if there are any QD fittings between the pump and the lift box. Dirty QDs can restrict the volume of fluid flow.

//greg//

 

[EE_Bota]

Yeah, that $900 trailer I cited was the used price. But that was back when Sikeston 7500 GVWR tandems w/brakes sold for $1300 new. Given that Tommy's selling new for $1900, then I'd say $1300 would be a fair used price.

You said "batteries" plural. That means two six volters. Given that you only measured 6.31v, either one battery is bad - or the jumper connection between batteries is dirty. Most folks replace the two 6v with one 12v. Minimum 750CCA assuming pre-heater and compression release. Higher amperage if tractor isn't equipped with one or both.

Two pumps up front; one should be a dedicated steering pump, the other for the loader and rear lift. The one above the PTO spline actually is a PTO pump; it's simply fitted to the aux PTO shaft. If kicking in the clutch stops that pump, then the tractor does have a 2 stage clutch. But it's not the main tractor pump, that job goes to one of the pair up front. Follow the lines to see which one is dedicated to steering, then by default the other will be the main pump.

The knob under the seat is a flow control valve, but its only job is to control the rate of fall of the rear lift. It should not affect loader operation. However that hex head on the side might. It just depends if you've got a single hydraulic remote (a short L-shaped pipe) coming out of the side of the lift housing. If you do, that hex head is a diverter valve. It switches the flow between the loader/rear lift and the L-shaped remote. If it's in the wrong position, all fluid is directed to the remote (technically going nowhere) and none to the loader and/or lift.

Not having seen the tractor myself - I'm not saying that this tractor is equipped in this manner. But - if true - it's another possible reason the lift and loader didn't work. A 3rd reason could be if there are any QD fittings between the pump and the lift box. Dirty QDs can restrict the volume of fluid flow.

//greg//

It sounds like you HAVE seen this tractor:thumbsup:...everything you said is dead on. I surmised some of it, but for the bolt out the side for the remote...I didn't know what to make of that...and I couldn't figure out what the story was on the remote...where the controls were.

The owner doesn't know much about it. All he knows is that the loader DID work and now it doesn't. I don't think he has ever touched that bolt...so I doubt that has changed.

What you said about the remotes is correct...it even has a quick disconnect. On the other side...the pipe is plugged.

I think the pump is the problem. It does have the power steering pump up front, main pump just behind, and hydraulic pump behind on the aux shaft.

Out of curiosity, anyone know if the position control and draught control works well on these tractors?

Is that remote just a single acting remote, since I am curious about the other pipe on the other side from the remote that is capped. It looks the same as the remote, but no QDisconnect.

Talking to my buddy last night...we decided our $9500 offer total is still good, so we are not taking it off the table. Hearing nothing from us, if he says come get it, we are committed (in our book.) But we are not ready to go to $10K. The deal is still new to us, and we are chewing on it.

 

[20 20]

Having owned one of the chinese BH's,(chinese tractor loader BH) I'd personally take that out of the equation. IMO the BH is only worth what it will sell for as scrap, not saying it won't work but they are a VERY fuzzy unit and have MANY problems. The tractor seems to have a lot of issue's for only 40hrs(??) it would make me wonder why(??). Was it abused, why weren't the issue's taken care of, are the problems just from sitting or is there something else going on. With that written please understand I'm not knocking the chinese brand I ran mine hard and sold it with 900+hrs and never had ANY problems except what I caused. I still own a nortrac dozer(chinese) and for what I paid it is a real work horse and would definately buy again. My opinon would be more based on buying a used machine and what really did happen with it. I think 8k(plus what ever you feel the trailer is worth) for the tractor would be more then fair, but the 10500 IMO is to high(for the package) with the amount of issue's you wrote about.

 

[greg_g]

Out of curiosity, anyone know if the position control and draught control works well on these tractors?

Is that remote just a single acting remote, since I am curious about the other pipe on the other side from the remote that is capped. It looks the same as the remote, but no QDisconnect.

I much prefer the two lever lift system; inner lever for up/down (position), outer lever for draft control. It gives the operator infinite adjustment of the draft sensitivity. The single lever system - to me - always makes me feel like the draft is in charge, instead of the operator. I may be wrong, but I'm thinkin' that particular tractor is of the single lever design. Mid position is the equivalent of neutral between lift/lower (upper half) and draft control (lower half).

That single remote is designed for devices that need supply pressure only, and rely on gravity for return. Think dump trailer; tractor pumps fluid to lift dump bed, gravity returns fluid to sump. Like I said, that bolt on the side controls the divertor valve. Not positive, but full clockwise would seem logical to divert fluid to that pipe. Full counter-clockwise would then divert fluid back to the lift and loader.

The Chinese loader and backhoe are structurally sound, it's the mainly hydraulic controllers that suck. Owners report that even trained operator input pretty consistently results in erratic output. If you can negotiate a reasonable price, it might justify replacing the controllers with decent aftermarket units. Several owners have reported dramatically improved operation after switching to Prince (or equivalent) controllers.

//greg//

 

[EE_Bota]

Having owned one of the chinese BH's,(chinese tractor loader BH) I'd personally take that out of the equation. IMO the BH is only worth what it will sell for as scrap, not saying it won't work but they are a VERY fuzzy unit and have MANY problems. The tractor seems to have a lot of issue's for only 40hrs(??) it would make me wonder why(??). Was it abused, why weren't the issue's taken care of, are the problems just from sitting or is there something else going on. With that written please understand I'm not knocking the chinese brand I ran mine hard and sold it with 900+hrs and never had ANY problems except what I caused. I still own a nortrac dozer(chinese) and for what I paid it is a real work horse and would definately buy again. My opinon would be more based on buying a used machine and what really did happen with it. I think 8k(plus what ever you feel the trailer is worth) for the tractor would be more then fair, but the 10500 IMO is to high(for the package) with the amount of issue's you wrote about.

Sorry to hear the BH is not up to snuff...I went to see it because I thought Chinese tractor with Koyker loader and BH added, and I was backed up a bit see instead of Koyker, Chinese loader and backhoe.

All I was told was he bought the thing new for ~19K, and his rehab business died, and Civil clients went away, so the tractor sat unused on his property for a full year.

Someone mentioned earlier about 2 six volt batteries...that is immediately what I thought when I checked...6.31 to ground...so I asked, and he thinks there is a single 12V. I believe there really is 2 x 6V batteries...but I don't know for sure. He knows almost nothing about it...apparently he had a helper who did that work.

I think the tractor is likely to be pretty solid for what it is.

It has been interesting and fun and an offer is out there. I know the offer is fair from my perspective because I literally don't care if he accepts or not...so sounds like I am not taking advantage are giving advantage...and my buddy thinks the same.

 

[EE_Bota]

I much prefer the two lever lift system; inner lever for up/down (position), outer lever for draft control. It gives the operator infinite adjustment of the draft sensitivity. The single lever system - to me - always makes me feel like the draft is in charge, instead of the operator. I may be wrong, but I'm thinkin' that particular tractor is of the single lever design. Mid position is the equivalent of neutral between lift/lower (upper half) and draft control (lower half).

/greg//

It has two levers...but I can't tell what they do (paint overspray...according to him, originally oversprayed) as the lift seems to be stuck in the up position. The lift arms are removed because of the BH, but with I stand on the stubs..I can't get the lift to move down.

That single remote is designed for devices that need supply pressure only, and rely on gravity for return. Think dump trailer; tractor pumps fluid to lift dump bed, gravity returns fluid to sump. Like I said, that bolt on the side controls the divertor valve. Not positive, but full clockwise would seem logical to divert fluid to that pipe. Full counter-clockwise would then divert fluid back to the lift and loader.

//greg//

I gotcha on the single action...and if it is operated through the regular lift quadrant lever, I don't see how to control a double acting in any case..so my question was silly.

As for the bolt...it was screwed all the way in, and nothing worked. I screwed it full out to see if there was a change...no change. It could be true that the bolt works like you say, but he ruined the pump with it screwed in and dead headed the pump. I don't know. Anyway...if that thing winds up in my hands..first thing I will do is change all fluids...and then pour over the manuals until I have all the scattered information firmly in mind.

I think that makes a bunch of sense about better valves...and things may improve..since those valves have odd characteristics. It could be if I did wind up with it at the price I offered, it would be good as new or better by the time I spent ~1500 for new valves, new pump, new knick knacks.

It's been interesting...and was not a bad way to spend an evening...looking and trying to be helpful. I'm not against him, I'm for him. A square deal is the best deal.

Fellows, thanks a lot for all the ideas and help. If I wind up with it, I'm not scared of it. My buddy and I would use it to do good stuff and have some fun too. We'd take care of it, and improve it...and as always...talk about it over a beverage, like we do so many other things we team up on. It's good fun, and its uplifting too.

 

[Rich Waugh]

I'll agree that the Chinese loader and back hoe valves aren't that great. I replaced my loader valve with an aftermarket one from RanchHand Supply and really like it.

One of the main complaints about the Chinese back hoe controls is that the swing movements are wild and overly aggressive, there fore hard to control. A few guys have simply put flow restriction orifices in the swing cylinder circuit and mostly solved that issue. I haven't heard nearly as many complaints about the boom and dipper controls.

I think you might make out okay if you get it for what you offered. The Chinese hoe is strong enough, just has a sloppy control valve stack. The loader is a loader but does greatly benefit from an upgraded valve with float and regen. Good luck with it!

 

[EE_Bota]

The fellow called last night, and asked if we were going to up our offer.
I said, no, we are going to keep looking. So, he said 'then it's your's for the price you offered.'

So as early as this evening, but as late as Saturday night, I will have it at my house.

First thing I will have to do is study the hydraulics thoroughly, make sure I know it is the hydraulic pump, and I will then have to get a pump on order.

I am trying to decide how to test for the bad pump possibility. But...I have to know how not to ruin a new pump if needed too...so first thing is...

It looks like a positive displacement gear pump to me. That means there must be a relief (though all systems should have a relief) and I have to make sure I find it and know it is not now stuck open or closed and that if a rooky (to the tractor) installs a new pump, it will not be quickly ruined.

Theory says tells me there is likely two reliefs. One in the loader valve stack since it gets first crack at the flow, and could deadhead it directly, but since the loader can be removed there ought to be a second relief in the lift body. If the docs are clear, I'll figure that out pretty quickly, but what I have seen of the docs, it may take a while to sort.

I am used to gear pumps sometimes fracturing if dead headed. This pump is not fractured. But if it is ruined after only 40hrs, I have to decide if it was just a poor pump, or if some event ruined it.

Frequently, when I try to check out tractor hydraulics, it is difficult to find a good combination of fittings that allows me to measure pressure without dead heading pumps.

I don't really understand the setup. On my BX2200 loader has three disconnects...tank, pressure, and power beyond. This setup seems to be a power beyond setup without a power beyond port. I will have to think a while on that and see if I understand what that all means.

Thanks for all the tips. I will use the tractor with existing valves for a while to see if it is stable in all respects (so I know where best to spend first money) and then quickly move on to better valves.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Biggest issue and quickest way to ruin the pump on a Jinma is the QC's. Get rid of them. I took mine out and put in two 1/2" swivel fittings in place of them.

They do not fit well and they just cause issues.

Chris