Deal or No Deal... used Coleman 6500H Generator

dholly · May 23, 2006

Highbeam, that is the 'dilemna''. I know the 7.8kw surge will not start the primary heat pump or allow running the electric water heater, well pump and fridge concurrently. Aside from lighting and TV, those are the necessities that we consider 'must haves' and I'll be testing to see if the well starts with the water heater on and what reserve is left for other circuits (yep, I bot it and it is cherry). One of those amp wire testers sounds pretty handy. The 'other' necessity, one I originally wasn't giving enough consideration to IMO, is user friendliness. One simple test 'drill' was enough to convince me that the wife and kids simply cannot set up and operate the PTO genny. Frankly, I'd be afraid for my tractor and anything around it. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

So, after thinking about this, the Coleman wins and the gen head goes back. I really don't mind throwing the water heater breaker off once I have a hot tankful. That might mean only one trip to the basement panel a day if conservation efforts are imposed. Plus, the fuel efficiency and availability played into the decision. We had an ice storm that left a large part of the state without power for weeks once and, if I learned anything from that experience, fuel efficiency can be a life saver. All those big-wigs with their fancy 15kw+ gas-guzzlers had their house lit up for a couple of days, then froze their azz off in the dark for the rest of the time because they could not get fuel. I forced my elec. heat pump to nat'l gas emergency heat on the thermostat and used my little 1.1kw Utilimate to backfeed the blower fan for central heat the whole time. We had a LOT of company.

So, with the two smaller gennys I think can get along for an extended time without breaking the bank. Won't be running the whole house of course, but I will be able to go for many days without power and have the tractor free to boot. Now I have to figure the best way to feed the house... manual tfr switch or backfeed thru the garage welder plug. One issue is I have two panels in the main house, one has all the 220v double poles and the other the single breaker circuits.

[image]http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/download.php?Number=747237[/image]

dholly · May 23, 2006

Highbeam, that is the 'dilemna''. I know the 7.8kw surge will not start the primary heat pump or allow running the electric water heater, well pump and fridge concurrently. Aside from lighting and TV, those are the necessities that we consider 'must haves' and I'll be testing to see if the well starts with the water heater on and what reserve is left for other circuits (yep, I bot it and it is cherry). One of those amp wire testers sounds pretty handy. The 'other' necessity, one I originally wasn't giving enough consideration to IMO, is user friendliness. One simple test 'drill' was enough to convince me that the wife and kids simply cannot set up and operate the PTO genny. Frankly, I'd be afraid for my tractor and anything around it. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

So, after thinking about this, the Coleman wins and the gen head goes back. I really don't mind throwing the water heater breaker off once I have a hot tankful. That might mean only one trip to the basement panel a day if conservation efforts are imposed. Plus, the fuel efficiency and availability played into the decision. We had an ice storm that left a large part of the state without power for weeks once and, if I learned anything from that experience, fuel efficiency can be a life saver. All those big-wigs with their fancy 15kw+ gas-guzzlers had their house lit up for a couple of days, then froze their azz off in the dark for the rest of the time because they could not get fuel. I forced my elec. heat pump to nat'l gas emergency heat on the thermostat and used my little 1.1kw Utilimate to backfeed the blower fan for central heat the whole time. We had a LOT of company.

So, with the two smaller gennys I think can get along for an extended time without breaking the bank. Won't be running the whole house of course, but I will be able to go for many days without power and have the tractor free to boot. Now I have to figure the best way to feed the house... manual tfr switch or backfeed thru the garage welder plug. One issue is I have two panels in the main house, one has all the 220v double poles and the other the single breaker circuits.

[image]http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/download.php?Number=747237[/image]

Highbeam · May 23, 2006

Great. Having natural gas backup is great for heating and the blower on the furnace isn't that huge of a load.
You're talking to a guy who still runs extension cords to power each appliance as needed during our short power outages. I have been hesitant to use a suicide plug to backfeed the panel through my welder plug but I am certain it would run my gas furnace, lights, fridge, and TV. My water heater is gas and city water needs no power so a fridge is really the biggest draw. Do you think you could consider switching your water heater from 4500 watts of electricity to a natural gas model? Certainly there would be cost savings even when on city power.

If I was wiring a home from scratch, I would put a main transfer switch between the meter and my panel. I do not want to mess with a subpanel.

I have even thought of cutting a plug into my hard wired furnace to run that applicance only. Then I could unplug the furnace from the wall and plug in my extension cord.

Highbeam · May 23, 2006

Great. Having natural gas backup is great for heating and the blower on the furnace isn't that huge of a load.
You're talking to a guy who still runs extension cords to power each appliance as needed during our short power outages. I have been hesitant to use a suicide plug to backfeed the panel through my welder plug but I am certain it would run my gas furnace, lights, fridge, and TV. My water heater is gas and city water needs no power so a fridge is really the biggest draw. Do you think you could consider switching your water heater from 4500 watts of electricity to a natural gas model? Certainly there would be cost savings even when on city power.

If I was wiring a home from scratch, I would put a main transfer switch between the meter and my panel. I do not want to mess with a subpanel.

I have even thought of cutting a plug into my hard wired furnace to run that applicance only. Then I could unplug the furnace from the wall and plug in my extension cord.

Soundguy · May 23, 2006

( I'll be testing to see if the well starts with the water heater on and what reserve is left for other circuits ( )

I've sued this trick before.

Start well by itself.. let it pump up to presure. Kill well, start water heater.. let it run to warm up water. after water is warmed, kill water heater, then reconnect well.. hop in shower and take a quick warm shower. The well wiill keep the water pressure up, and then you have 40-60-80 gallons of hot water to shower with...

Soundguy

Soundguy · May 23, 2006

( I'll be testing to see if the well starts with the water heater on and what reserve is left for other circuits ( )

I've sued this trick before.

Start well by itself.. let it pump up to presure. Kill well, start water heater.. let it run to warm up water. after water is warmed, kill water heater, then reconnect well.. hop in shower and take a quick warm shower. The well wiill keep the water pressure up, and then you have 40-60-80 gallons of hot water to shower with...

Soundguy

JJT · May 23, 2006

Dholly, I have a smaller coleman unit, 5500watt, 6500 surge. It runs everything I need except the water heater. If you don't buy it, shoot me a pm with the details, I'm also in upstate NY and would love to have an electric start and a little more juice. JT

JJT · May 23, 2006

Dholly, I have a smaller coleman unit, 5500watt, 6500 surge. It runs everything I need except the water heater. If you don't buy it, shoot me a pm with the details, I'm also in upstate NY and would love to have an electric start and a little more juice. JT

dholly · May 24, 2006

If you have a gas furnace and hot water heater you are waay ahead of the game. If you have muni water supply and a gas stove too, heck, you pretty much got it made in the shade. That's how our OLD house was. On the old elec heat pump, what I did during outages was 1.) turn off heat pump breaker; 2.) open up the emergency on/off switch box on the feeder conduit at the heat pump; 3.) remove from switch and nut off supply wires from the panel in the switch box; 4.) attach a heavy gauge extension cord with 3-prong male plug to the heat pump supply emergency switch (where the original panel supply wires were). I ran the extension cord into the switch box thru a knockout hole and close it up with a snap in cover when not using the pigtail. This isolates the heat pump from the panel preventing backfeed, allows quick shutoff if necessary and, with the thermostat set on emergeny heat (gas backup), simply allows the just the low draw blower fan to operate normally. My little 1.1kw genny could [barely] start the blower while the 1/2hp sump pump was running but it managed to keep us warm and dry. Our new house is all electric with a well and no gas, so a whole new set of problems now.

Soundguy - I think there's a good chance the 7.8kw surge can start the well with the elec. hot water heater on, but I don't mind putting in a little power conservation effort just to save the fuel. After dealing with a couple two and three week long outages, my thinking evolved from 'I want to run it all at the the same time' to 'how can I run most effeciently without giving up necessities'. I prefer to generate only what power I need when I actually need it, rather than just leave a big genny running with a partial load. If you've ever been stuck feeding 5gals every 8hrs for a week you know what I mean. Assuming you can find enough fuel, it gets pricey real quick.

JJT - sorry, picked it up Sat. and it's a definite keeper! It doesn't have electric start but pulls so easiliy I wonder if it has an automatic decompressor. Real quiet too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dholly · May 24, 2006

If you have a gas furnace and hot water heater you are waay ahead of the game. If you have muni water supply and a gas stove too, heck, you pretty much got it made in the shade. That's how our OLD house was. On the old elec heat pump, what I did during outages was 1.) turn off heat pump breaker; 2.) open up the emergency on/off switch box on the feeder conduit at the heat pump; 3.) remove from switch and nut off supply wires from the panel in the switch box; 4.) attach a heavy gauge extension cord with 3-prong male plug to the heat pump supply emergency switch (where the original panel supply wires were). I ran the extension cord into the switch box thru a knockout hole and close it up with a snap in cover when not using the pigtail. This isolates the heat pump from the panel preventing backfeed, allows quick shutoff if necessary and, with the thermostat set on emergeny heat (gas backup), simply allows the just the low draw blower fan to operate normally. My little 1.1kw genny could [barely] start the blower while the 1/2hp sump pump was running but it managed to keep us warm and dry. Our new house is all electric with a well and no gas, so a whole new set of problems now.

Soundguy - I think there's a good chance the 7.8kw surge can start the well with the elec. hot water heater on, but I don't mind putting in a little power conservation effort just to save the fuel. After dealing with a couple two and three week long outages, my thinking evolved from 'I want to run it all at the the same time' to 'how can I run most effeciently without giving up necessities'. I prefer to generate only what power I need when I actually need it, rather than just leave a big genny running with a partial load. If you've ever been stuck feeding 5gals every 8hrs for a week you know what I mean. Assuming you can find enough fuel, it gets pricey real quick.

JJT - sorry, picked it up Sat. and it's a definite keeper! It doesn't have electric start but pulls so easiliy I wonder if it has an automatic decompressor. Real quiet too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif