Dealers on this site and cheap customers

[Bird]

Eddie, I don't think they advertise it, but I recently learned that Lowe's gives a pretty good discount to any military or retired military personnel if they just show their ID card. One of my brothers learned about it by accident when the person at the cash register asked him about the retired Air Force cap he was wearing. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tractorwheel]

Norm, great story. Sorry to hear she stopped scheduling you for work though. Wouldn't it be fun to have that kind of money. I would buy all kinds of tractors and equipment and have a ball doing it myself. She needs a date.
(I am trying to be humerous about this, I do not mean to offend anyone reading this) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[WVBill]

Soundguy -
Your comment about your wife's overseas travel brought back a funny memory -

It was the early '70's and I was in the Navy on the USS Midway. We pulled into Singapore and in briefings before we were allowed to go ashore they told us that the "locals" expected us to haggle over prices - it was their way of life. So when we found a McDonalds in town one of my buddies tried to negotiate the price of a Big Mac. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
..you had to be there....

 

[2nstonge]

I hear where you're coming from. The tag line on my business is "Good work at a fair price - it's that simple." It's on my written proposals and my invoices (I don't do any work without a signed proposal and provide every customer, even the $50 job, an invoice/receipt for their records). Most people seem to get it. If someone asks about price I tell them that "I have to make a living, not a killing, but a living". That has aways ended the discussion.

The customer who says they'll shop around, I wish them luck and remind them my quote is valid for 10 days. If they call back after price shopping (always takes more than 10 days) I add 25% to my original quote - and an extra week or two before I can get there. I don't think I've lost a job to just pricing, although I do get many customers with a list of "this will only take you 5 minutes" extra's once I'm on site. I don't play that game either. I tell them I'm happy to look at it once the original 'hit list' is complete, if 'we' have time and they're ok paying more for the additional work then we do it, if not, I'm going home (exceptions, of course for repeat customers who don't abuse the freebie). Learned that lesson the hard way.

I've even had some customers who are about to refer me out to a friend tells me to take the "Good work at a fair price..." quote out of my proposal material because their friends "can afford it". Works for me.

-Norm

 

[2nstonge]

Tractorwheel - Yeah, it was a bummer to lose that solid one-day-a-week gig but I figure if she punted me over a $30 lawn mowing job (which I don't do anyhow!) then it was best to be cut loose.

I did get invited to her Xmas party, I went, and she made a point to introduce me to her 'new' handyman. After a couple of beers by the fire he started complaining about how difficult it is to work for her...too funny.

My wife agrees with you, she (customer) does need a date.

-Norm

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> My wife agrees with you, she (customer) does need a date. </font>

Aaah, how I do love a good euphemism. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Funny how this reminds me of a certain line from "Good Morning Vietnam" .....

Oops, here comes a moderator, gotta go!

 

[meledward23]

I do free lance Landscape Design work on my spare time for individuals. My day job is for a 100% commercial company with strict specifications, blueprints, contracts, etc. I like the commercial world. Residential is very different. Since I take extreme pride in my work I spend several hours discussing what they want. I then provide a proposal, a rough sketch of my vision, and a dollar figure. I always ask them for a budget. Because I can design a Mercedes, Toyota, or Kia landscape. They may all be four door sedans, but they are very different. Customers that tell me a budget get a design in budget. Those that wont give me a budget get a proposal only half the time at the most.

My price is firm. For those that take it they get more than they dreamed of. If I decide I forgot a tree, there isnt a change order, I buy it, install it and they come out ahead. I add shrubs, ground cover, bed lines, where I feel they need to be if I missed something. They client placed confidence in me at my price to give them what we discussed and that is what they get.

Then I run into the clients that wanted to spend 10K get my design and proposal and decide now that they want 9K. I redesign the project remove 2K charge 9K. and they get strictly what is listed in the proposal. Anything I feel I missed is to bad the moment they negotiate / haggle my price they loose all additional services.

In the end I do 95% of my work for people that except what I propose.

My point although long, drawn out, and probably poorly expounded upon is this :

Often you get what you pay for. If you haggle for a lower price from a tradesman often what you get is the bare bones minimal project. (and that may be okay if that is what you want or can afford). And if you higher a someone at their proposed price, they are more often willing to take care of things, get it done, and get it done right.

You can argue the above statement till you are blue in the face. There are exceptions to every rule. You could hire a wothless contractor at face value and get the screw. You could find some one that is haggleable (check that word out) and get a great deal. But I believe the law of averages would reveal the above to be accurate.

But who cares, Hagglers will haggle, others will never haggle, and some will be Half-Hagglers. In the end it takes all types to run this earth into the ground.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> Often you get what you pay for. If you haggle for a lower price from a tradesman often what you get is the bare bones minimal project (and that may be okay if that is what you want or can afford). And if you hire someone at their proposed price, they are more often willing to take care of things, get it done, and get it done right. </font>

Matthew, that post was neither long, drawn out, or poorly expounded. I could not echo your sentiments more completely. You said it all, and very well. "Pity the fool" who gives a price any higher than he deserves, accepts a price any lower than he deserves, or tries to keep anyone else from getting what that person deserves.

It comes down to respect for yourself, and probably even more importantly, respect for others. I firmly believe that those who lack such respect fall into the category of: [the] type [who] run this earth into the ground.

To anyone reading this: YMMV, but I hope it doesn't.

 

[riptides]

Good post! meledward23


Can we talk about this some more?


</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Often you get what you pay for. If you haggle for a lower price from a tradesman often what you get is the bare bones minimal project. (and that may be okay if that is what you want or can afford). And if you higher a someone at their proposed price, they are more often willing to take care of things, get it done, and get it done right. )</font>

Sellers (using this term lightly) have ask me for my budget on stuff. I find this annoying in the fact that I -
<ul type="square"> - Have attempted to frame what I need or want very carefully
- Am reluctant to share my financial information
- Want to hear some more information from them [/list]

Is this wrong? I feel if I tell you what I need or want, and you know my budget, you will maximize that budget for yourself.

So, I usually get around this detail by saying I have a budget, but show me your offers. accordingly.

In the case of meledward23's design work I find it even more curious that people would approach him without knowing exactly what they want?

My question is how doe you know x monies worth of work is x monies work?
Obvious to me, is I'd have to screen the person or company verrrry carefully.

Again, meledward23, you raise some interesting thoughts!

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Hi Mike, how goes it? Happy New Year!

I don't want to "steal Matthew's thunder", but I have some thoughts I'd like to share (surprise surprise). I hear you loud and clear that there are times when we don't want the seller/contractor to know how much we are willing to pay for something. When I look at a very well-defined, small-to-medium scale tree removal job, I wouldn't dream of asking the customer how much he wants to spend. But if someone points to a 2-acre jungle and says "please make it beautiful", that's different. Sometimes I'll say "it'll be X dollars per hour, or day - tell us when to stop" - or, "let us show you how much we get done in one day (8 hours on-site, no travel time), and if you like what you see, we'll keep going".

I can see Matthew's point very well, and don't envy him his estimating tasks. VERY different from tree removal, or buying a certain car, or tractor - SO many variables, and I can imagine how his customers sometimes don't even know what they want, or think they do only to "find out" differently.
I can definitely see where he practically HAS to determine a budget up front - how else to know how to design it, as he said. Hanging Gardens of Babylon, or just a nice little "make-over"?

So much of it comes down to trust. That's where reputation, referrals, personality, salesmanship, and just plain honesty and integrity come in. And carefully "screening" customers, so we don't end up wasting too much time on the ones who don't appreciate good, hard, honest, quality work at a fair price.