Dealing with an elderly parent or relative.

[California]

Your decision can not and will not be purely financial.

Are you trying to tell me what is right for me?

My decision to take early retirement (54) was based on I had already put away enough to put both kids through college and grad school without anyone incurring debt, plus of course to cover my own retirement. I don't regret it, I know I did the right thing. I hope you are equally fortunate when the time comes.

Many people aren't so fortunate. I posted that figure to illustrate how taking care of an elder for decades can irretrievably force a whole family into poverty if the elder lives long enough. While the elder (perhaps all four of a couple's parents!) has lost their mind, is nothing but belligerent, and has no idea of the burden they have become. That is a substantial sacrifice indeed. Thankfully our elders all had sufficient savings to pay for 24/7 caregivers when the time came that they were impossible to care for ourselves.

Taxpayer money to pay for elder care is drying up, wages aren't rising, and many present elders have little/no retirement savings. I think we will see more families living in this nightmare, poverty due to early retirement plus a household dominated by mindless and demanding elders, in the coming years.

 

[Beltzington]

Been there.

I'll spare you the long story but in summary I feel after parents aren't rational you need to put someone between you and them to save your own sanity. An unreasonable elder can/will suck all the spirit out of several well-meaning people who feel responsible for them. The saying that an elder will often outlive his/her caregiver isn't a joke at all. Get help.

Intellectually this is the best advice and what you will hear from 99% of medical professionals behind closed doors, the real problem is we were raised in a culture that instilled the exact opposite moral rules and expectations and you end up not knowing if you are coming or going. Throw in a few well-meaning patient advocates or worse, a few friends or church pew quarterbacks who with nothing but well wishes and shallow minds enable your parent/s negative behavior and you will need to seek professional help or plan on attending AA meetings for the foreseeable future.

With two 80+ year-old parents living in our home I am in very similar situation as you and am still reluctant to place them in an Assisted Care Facility (PC name for Nursing Home) my hope is they will be gracious enough to come to terms with their future and make the choice for themselves when the time comes (this is very unrealistic.) My advice for you, which I have been unable to follow, is save yourself, our parents lived full lives and very few of them provided long-term living quarters and daily health-care and financial support for their parents. Why should they expect to be treated differently? Over the last 60 years drugs have added 15+ years to our life span, as more boomers become unable to take care of themselves financially or for health reasons, society will be hard pressed to provide a quality-of-life solution for this dilemma. Best Regards

 

[2manyrocks]

Each family has to evaluate their relative's needs, what they can realitistically do, and their overall responsibilities.

I think families could make better decisions if they were better informed, but in my experience, docs don't always tell you the whole story--especially what caregivers face if they do it themselves.

 

[California]

families could make better decisions if they were better informed,...--especially what caregivers face if they do it themselves.

From the school of BTDT: The attorney who wrote your parents' Will may deal with surviving spouse elder care issues continually. He/she might have practical advice and access to a network of caregivers, home maintenance tradesmen, etc that you will need and you likely couldn't find on your own.

 

[bigbull338]

been in your shoes an truely feel for you with what your dealing with.we went through the samething with my grandmother.she stayed with us for awhile.an it was hard on us tending to her an running the dairy.we had to watch her alot as she would pass out without warning out of the blue.so we put her in an assisted living complex.it was alot of work off of us.went to see her as much as possable.an that was hard sometimes running the dairy an seeing things got done.

 

[2manyrocks]

From the school of BTDT: The attorney who wrote your parents' Will may deal with surviving spouse elder care issues continually. He/she might have practical advice and access to a network of caregivers, home maintenance tradesmen, etc that you will need and you likely couldn't find on your own.

I had an issue where a doc advised me to place my Mother in an assisted living facility, but didn't bother to tell me she had diagnosed her with vascular dementia. My Mother stayed in assisted living for a month before her behavior became more of a problem. Returned to same doc and asked her if my Mother was affected by dementia-then she told me the diagnosis.

It appears that placing a person affected by dementia in unfamiliar surroundings (ie moving her to assisted living) was probably not the thing to have done. My Mother is now in a nursing home. Had I known that placing my Mother in assisted living could have done this to her, I would have brought her home, but the doctor didn't tell me her diagnosis nor explain the risks, and the doctor knew that I have a durable power of attorney to make all health care decisions for my Mother.

It might not have made a difference in the end, but at least I would have some facts to go on instead of having to try to figure out my Mother's medical condition on my own.

 

[rekees4300]

So, in addition to bringing in home health care people, we decided perhaps we should look into getting her into a nursing home. Anyone else having to deal with an elderly loved one and not having an easy time of it?

I agree that a nursing home is your best course of action. The elderly reach a point where professional help is needed. My sister cared for our mother as best she could for years but a nursing home eventually became necessary. Mom hated the place but it was the best care for her.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Wife and I toured a well rated home today. All things considered, we thought it was bright and clean with lots of staff and plenty to do for those that can and choose to do so. The admissions person even took us through the area for those with advance dementia, etc.

What we found out though about floored us. In order to be admitted under medicare and her supplement for the first 100 days, my mother has to spend three overnights in the hospital. She had only spent two. Money is an issue of course.

I cannot imagine that our doctors did not know this. All I can figure until we get a chance to speak with them is that they just could not keep my mother in the hospital one more night with no life threatening issue.

 

[Raider43]

I agree with California, you have to put the professionals between you and your aging parent. I spent 7 years with my mom aging after my dad past away and things get tougher and tougher. You will know when the time is to have her in a place where she can be cared for and stay in contact and visit often. Have good talks with her as often as possible and let the doctors and nurses help her also. Listen to what she tells you about the medical people and address all her concerns. God bless.

 

[SPIKER]

Taxpayer money to pay for elder care is drying up, wages aren't rising, and many present elders have little/no retirement savings. I think we will see more families living in this nightmare, poverty due to early retirement plus a household dominated by mindless and demanding elders, in the coming years.

Where as right now it seems most homes are dominated by mindless and demanding twenty somethings living in the basement without having a job car or drivers license let alone any kind of work ethic or gumption to get ahead in life...

 

[Ed of all trades]

In the middle of it right now with my MIL. I wish I could say she has a reason like old age or AL. but she has been this way for years. Wish we knew what to do. STRESS!!!

 

[California]

I just read an article that might be helpful if your elder has an entitlement to federal benefits - VA, Department of Personnel Administration for survivor benefits granted due to a spouse's service, Social Security, etc, ... and has dementia. I learned that those three agencies do not recognize any variety of Power of Attorney granted by the elder to their child. And each agency requires its own separate process for an adult child / caregiver to become representative payee to receive and bank the demented elder's government entitlement. Each of these agencies won't recognize the validity of a process completed to satisfy another of the three agencies.

The writer was required to engage an attorney to represent the elder and another attorney to represent herself, to become recognized as representative payee for one of the agencies. They wouldn't accept a change of address for the elder until that was completed. This cost over $2,500.

Here's the article. It is one of a series, describing step by step how a daughter shouldered the responsibility to manage her demented mother's affairs. I hope this is helpful to somebody who is facing that situation.

 

[Mace Canute]

 

[Runner]

RE: Power of Attorney

You have hit on a pet peeve. I have a power of attorney for my mother, made up by her lawyer, signed by her, and notarized. However, every time I try to use it, for a banking transaction for instance, they tell me it's no good because it's more than 6 months old and I still have to get her signature on things. To me, this seems rediculous.

I thought the whole point of a power of attorney document was that you do it while you are still "with it" enough to be responsible so that when you aren't, someone else can take over. If the thing "expires" then what good is it?

 

[California]

I found that getting listed as a joint owner on the checking account that received automatic deposits was the simplest way to handle this Power of Attorney issue.

And there was a wide variance in who would accept or reject a POA document. In one case a bank requested an original signed POA sent to its Oregon processing center several times when I tried to close out an account into another. They apparently discarded every request I sent. To close that account I switched to a different approach, I wrote checks down to $5 account balance then finally the local branch was willing to close the account without a hassle.

Like described in that article I linked, you often have to make up some awkward workaround to accomplish what a POA should be sufficient to do.

Maybe as the huge Boomer generation ages, legislation to streamline elder care legal issues will become an issue. At the moment there's no uniformity and its chaos.

 

[J35]

I found that getting listed as a joint owner on the checking account that received automatic deposits was the simplest way to handle this Power of Attorney issue.

This is exactly what i did.

I had my father sign everything as long as he could which was up to the last three month's of his life.

After breakfast every morning I would get out pen and paper and have him practice writing his name 50 times.

It was no easy feat because he had Parkinson's disease.

Take care--J

 

[CompactTractorFan]

View attachment 273154

You are so wrong. :laughing:

 

[kootch88]

I know everyone hates insurance, but be responsible and get long term care insurance so your kids actually have the option of getting you attentive care. It is very, very expensive, but when you consider spending 250 bucks a day at a facility the cost, if needed is well spent. I am facing this problem with my folks right now. I had to stop my Dad from driving 2 months ago because I am afraid he will kill someone. He is disoriented and fading quickly. My Mom seems to be doing well other than the fact that she is obstinate and driving me crazy already, and she has yet to move into my house yet. I'll step up and do what is right when the time comes, but I must say I am truly afraid of the consequences to my family as outlined by many of you here.

My heart goes out to all of you who are kind and generous enough to care for your elders. I hope I am able to do as good a job as many of you seem to do.

 

[N80]

Get out the calculator and read the fine print in regard to long term health insurance. Some plans are better than others but with many of them there are countless exclusions and time limits that make them not worth the money. You may need an advisor to help you sort it all out but in some cases you'd be better off investing that money in something safe (?!?) rather than spending it on a plan that has been very carefully designed to promise a lot and pay out very little.

 

[N80]

Sorry for multiple posts but I am at work and am replying between patients. I am a physician and I am in the middle of dealing with my father who is 76 and has severe Alzheimers or possible Lewy body dementia. So I have a fair amount of experience in these matters and I'm more than happy to share my thoughts and advice with TBN members who might want it. Sadly, there are very few good, clear answers especially in regard to dementia patients. It is just hard.

This post is just to clarify something about facilities. While they may look and smell the same there are significant differences between retirement homes, assisted living, memory care units and nursing homes. This is another area that you need to fully understand when dealing with an elderly parent. Unfortunately many of these facilities will accept 'patients' that are beyond their means to care for in order to keep beds full.