Decarbonizing GDI Engines....

   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines....
  • Thread Starter
#91  
1) How is your mileage and driveability affected (Year/Make/Model pls) ?

2012 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L with 100,000 Miles. Mileage and performance unchanged since we bought the car new. Mostly highway driving.

2) What are you using/doing to decarbonize the head ?

Nothing

3) How often do you need to do it ?
N/A

4) If not DIY, what are you paying to get this done ?
N/A

Some GDI engines do better than others. By the time I get into GDI, I think I'll add a borescope to my tool collection though....

Would I be correct in guessing that you are good at changing oil by the factory interval, if not sooner ?

Rgds, D.
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines....
  • Thread Starter
#92  
I work on these cars daily and from experience I can tell you two things.

A catch can is a waste of time and money because the problem is reversion from the intake valve that causes all of the deposits to form about 3 inches back from the valve head itself.

If the crankcase vapors are causing the deposits then why don't the deposits start at the PCV orifice in the intake manifold? That's right they don't.

I've tried and tested the CRC cleaner and it simply does not work.

I use BG 220 and let the port soak for 20 minutes with the valve closed after removing the intake or better yet walnut shell blasting is the cleanest, quickest and easiest way for professionals to get the job done.

BG ISC(R) Induction System Cleaner | BG Products, Inc.

The permanent fix (noted by one of the earliest posters in this thread) is done by computer software that changes valve timing and an added extra fuel injector to keep things cleaned out in the port runners. Some manufacturers are already doing both.

VW and Audi started direct injection in 2006 and have had 10 years to get it sorted out. It sure has been a long battle for these manufacturers to do this.

It's a shame to see an almost new engine all crudded up at 50K miles needing at least 3 hours labor to disassemble and clean correctly. The other problem with these injectors are the close tolerances and the need to use a fuel injector cleaner every 10K or so like Techron or BG 44K. Another great injector cleaner is Liqui-Moly Jectron LM2007.

I think in a few years these issues will be solved for sure, Fred

Thanks for the 411, and specific recommendations.

One of my gas MPFI engines has over 300k miles on it, and (knock wood) the head has never been off. I'd be seriously irritated with a GDI engine that couldn't make 1/6 of that, w/o major top-end service.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines....
  • Thread Starter
#93  
I must say that I bought a can of CRC di-electric grease (in a pressurized can), I'm used to squeeze tubes and the propellant lasted for about 1/2 the can and fizzled out so I hacksawed the can open scooped out the remaining half and put it in a baby food jar. Hopefully their other products are better.

I've seen Permatex dielectric grease up here in a spray can - haven't tried that packaging, so can't say if it works better. I do use Permatex dielectric grease, but not in high volume, so I buy it in the small squeeze tube.

While I have plenty of other aerosol options for rust, I still use WD40 once in a while, for its originally intended function. That's one aerosol can that usually has the same Stops When Half Full problem. If the captive straw new head style I last bought is no better, I'll probably stop buying WD...

Rgds, D.
 
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   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines.... #94  
Di-electric grease is SOP for any and all Molex connectors I open and reseal, the high intensity light bulbs in the pot fixtures in the ceiling of the house and my block heater cord on my pickup truck.
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines.... #95  
Help an uneducated guy out here if you don't mind. Am I right in understanding that basically reversion results in the incomplete expulsion exhaust/burnt gasses? Also, in your experience is their any general benefit at all in attempting to eliminate the recirculated vapors coming through the PCV system? Not arguing your position, but rather trying to learn and get a better understanding of things as I've been running a filter element separator as opposed to a colescent catch can.



Thanks!



I'm no engineer but I've had a few classes on this. The reversion is designed into the engine management. The air modeling of these engines allows the reversal of intake charge because it helps to fill the next cylinder. More charge on each cylinder filling event means (yup you guessed it) more power.

The downside is the cruddy crap in the intake port and I have yet to see a "spray in" product that takes these deposits away without manual labor.

Today's engines are designed much different than engines we grew up with. Direct Injectors target a certain part of the combustion chamber to burn the charge in a certain way as to reduce emissions and maximize fuel economy. Once we understand this (and I DON'T very well) we can soon realize the gains to be had in economy and power. Unfortunately we are stuck with the piston engine design still.

GM took their 8.1 big block away from pickup trucks because it would not pass emissions, reason being the large displacement per cylinder would not allow for complete combustion of the whole charge. Now that D.I. is here one could expect a new version of the big block that would target a certain area of the piston and allow a complete combustion process.

Someday soon this technology will trickle down to hot rods and retrofits so imagine that old small block or 351 Cleveland that makes more power and gets 25 MPG in your Starsky and Hutch painted up Torino or whatever that contraption was.

I learned awhile ago not to try to overthink the OEMs and modify everything because 95% of the time you just ruin the value of your investment and never make any improvement. Most cars today have planned obsolescence built into them and are not designed to last 20 years like in the old days. The manufacturers, and the govt wants these cars off the road sooner so that newer safer designs and fewer emissions can be achieved.

It's just my take not the holy grail.


I gotta say 11.5 hrs. to clean that Mini intake seems about twice what it should have been.

Fuel injector cleaners do nothing to alleviate the crud in the intake port. They keep the internals of the injector working correctly and I highly recommend treating every 10K miles or so. I've seen a pile of replaced injectors because of this.







Fred
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines.... #96  
I gotta say 11.5 hrs. to clean that Mini intake seems about twice what it should have been.

Fred

I'd say you're exactly right. He said they had to do it a second time to get it to pass, so they did a poor job the first time and had to do it all over again. Job done twice, double the hours, customer pays for incompetent work.
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines.... #97  
Those newer Mini engines are a pile for sure. The older ones were simply a Dodge Neon motor, the newer ones (N12, N14) are a total mess.

Class action lawsuit on the timing chains and guides so if you paid for it you will get reimbursed from Mini. Mini just lowered the complete timing chain kit price to $150 bux because they know there are problems.

Sorry to jack, Fred
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines.... #98  
For those with Ecoboost engines, Ford has not approved ANY cleaning of the intake. No sprays, solvents, or walnut blasting. If you do any of these and it causes a problem (particles causing impeller damage, overheating turbo, washing bearings, etc) your warranty will not cover it. Ford still says there should not be excessive carbon issues due to there design, until 150+ miles. I haven't seen proof of any actual issues. Top tier gas and full synthetic oil is the best preventative until (IF) they come out with an approved cleaning method.
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines....
  • Thread Starter
#99  
Those newer Mini engines are a pile for sure. The older ones were simply a Dodge Neon motor, the newer ones (N12, N14) are a total mess.

Class action lawsuit on the timing chains and guides so if you paid for it you will get reimbursed from Mini. Mini just lowered the complete timing chain kit price to $150 bux because they know there are problems.

Sorry to jack, Fred

No Worries..... interesting info.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Decarbonizing GDI Engines....
  • Thread Starter
#100  
For those with Ecoboost engines, Ford has not approved ANY cleaning of the intake. No sprays, solvents, or walnut blasting. If you do any of these and it causes a problem (particles causing impeller damage, overheating turbo, washing bearings, etc) your warranty will not cover it. Ford still says there should not be excessive carbon issues due to there design, until 150+ miles. I haven't seen proof of any actual issues. Top tier gas and full synthetic oil is the best preventative until (IF) they come out with an approved cleaning method.

That's one of the reasons I started this thread..... wanted to see who was having problems with what. Some GDI designs are worse/better than others, and agreed, maintenance practices and use-profile will affect most engines.

Rgds, D.
 

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