Decided to go with Kubota.

[gemini5362]

Builder I agree with you that not everything built in japan is better than what is built in the USA. I know for a fact that japan orders some of its steel for car engines from Quanex corporation an american company with all of their plants in the US. I also do not feel you can compare a chevrolet cavalier with an Accura. You are taking a cheap american car and comparing it with the top of the line Honda vehicle. Is not a fair comparison. I see people with cadillacs that hold up pretty well. The people that I know who have impala's are pretty pleased with them and the top of the line buicks do not do bad. I do think that when comparing quality of vehicles then maybe a comparison of vehicles in the same price range would be in order.

Builder actually one of my favorite vehicles to drive is the Chevrolet tracker that I drive as a work car. Everyone that I know who has one talks about how indesctructable the drive train is. I hae 155,000 miles on mine and have never done anything other than preventative maintenance. I.E. replaces the timeing belt. But unfortuneatly for this arguement how much is it american made ?

 

[Superduper]

Builder,

I just bought my first foreign car about a month ago. A Hyundai Elantra to be specific. Wanted something good on gas, so I dumped my F150 (Still have a 3/4 Dodge Diesel) and got the high milage car.

I'd buy an American car in a hearbeat if I knew they were made in America these days, but my F150 was a product of Mexico. I couldn't tell where the Fusion or Focus were made, but probably outside the U.S. as well. I've always been a Ford guy, but they just didn't have what I wanted.

I really think they American car companies are shooting themselves in the foot by relocating production outside of the U.S. I just don't feel as patriotic buying a Ford made in Brazil as I would one made in the U.S. So I bought an el cheapo Hyundai with a 100,000 mile warranty. If I knew I was buying an American made car that was actually made in America, It would be a no brainer.

Same with a CUT. None are made in the U.S. If just one in my class size was actually made here by an American Company, then I would own that one.

Come on now, I find it ironic that Americans want good wages, union affiliation, medical benefits and comfortable pension, not to mention the XX days annual and sick leave -- it's the American way.... But let's face it, these come at a cost. When American companies such as the big 3 pay through the nose so that our "American automotive work force" gets these fine benefits, we turn around and buy the Toyotas of the world who aren't encumbered by the UAW. Do your research online and you'll find that the UAW has been wanting to add toyota to their membership for some time now. So to compete, American companies had to outsource and/or import parts of their manufacturing or else go belly up. So yes, Ford probably has a plant in Mexico because labor there is cheaper, etc. The truth is, if the American product was 100% American and costed twice as much, you wouldn't buy it, much as you say now that you will. And even if you did buy it, there are tons more who couldn't care less. Personally, I've done far more than my fair share in keeping these 3 car makers afloat over the years and if they don't have what I want, then that's too bad for them. But if an American company offered a comparable product at a near comparable price, even if some parts of it were manufactured offshore, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and buy it over an import every time. At least when I complain about the trade deficit, I won't have to feel guilty and hypocritical having contributed to it.

Now all I'm saying is that our way of life is way better than many parts of the world such as Mexico and Brazil. To sustain that lifestyle and an American work force, our companies produce products that often times cost more. When you don't support that product (that might be comparable in build/quality) simply because it costs more than an import, then understand that there are consequences. Anyone who says that Deere is not generally comparable to Kubota in terms of build or quality simply doesn't know what they are talking about or are completely biased. Perhaps not directly and perhaps not immediately. But in another 10 or 20 years, I can already confidently tell you that there are going to be some huge changes in the world regarding up and coming countries who are growing at phenomenal rates, who aren't encumbered by our labor costs and who don't care about being "green" as much as we do (or shall I say as little as we do?).

 

[marcus402]

And I've owned 2 japanese cars, one Honda and one Nissan and they were both junk. Honda transmission grenaded at 50K. Then again at 90K.
Just sold one of my Ford Superduties. Got 7&1/2 yrs of commercial service from it without a problem.

My wife owns an '07 Volvo XC90. A beautiful car, but after only 6 months, the A/C broke during a 90* temp trip to the beach (engine is made by Yamaha of Japan, Denso elec system), the wipers broke and the catalytic converter shield is hanging down about 2" off the road.



FYI Builder - Your wife's Volvo is owned by FORD, the truck company that sold you your Superduty with no problems.

 

[aesanders]

Come on now, I find it ironic that Americans want good wages, union affiliation, medical benefits and comfortable pension, not to mention the XX days annual and sick leave -- it's the American way.... But let's face it, these come at a cost. When American companies such as the big 3 pay through the nose so that our "American automotive work force" gets these fine benefits, we turn around and buy the Toyotas of the world who aren't encumbered by the UAW. Do your research online and you'll find that the UAW has been wanting to add toyota to their membership for some time now. So to compete, American companies had to outsource and/or import parts of their manufacturing or else go belly up. So yes, Ford probably has a plant in Mexico because labor there is cheaper, etc. The truth is, if the American product was 100% American and costed twice as much, you wouldn't buy it, much as you say now that you will. And even if you did buy it, there are tons more who couldn't care less. Personally, I've done far more than my fair share in keeping these 3 car makers afloat over the years and if they don't have what I want, then that's too bad for them. But if an American company offered a comparable product at a near comparable price, even if some parts of it were manufactured offshore, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and buy it over an import every time. At least when I complain about the trade deficit, I won't have to feel guilty and hypocritical having contributed to it.

Now all I'm saying is that our way of life is way better than many parts of the world such as Mexico and Brazil. To sustain that lifestyle and an American work force, our companies produce products that often times cost more. When you don't support that product (that might be comparable in build/quality) simply because it costs more than an import, then understand that there are consequences. Anyone who says that Deere is not generally comparable to Kubota in terms of build or quality simply doesn't know what they are talking about or are completely biased. Perhaps not directly and perhaps not immediately. But in another 10 or 20 years, I can already confidently tell you that there are going to be some huge changes in the world regarding up and coming countries who are growing at phenomenal rates, who aren't encumbered by our labor costs and who don't care about being "green" as much as we do (or shall I say as little as we do?).

Well you basically hit it in a nutshell. It's the UAW that is the downfall of the big three and not the quality so to speak. To compete cost wise they have to cut corners. The manufacturing company I worked for could compete all day and all night against foreign built products, but they were non union. Sure the employees didn't get all the benefits that union workers got, but they still had a decent job that paid the bills.

In my opinion, the only way the big three are going to survive is if they dump the union and go thru a reorginizing bankruptcy. They need to drastically cut cost and reinvest in non union U.S. manufactuing. And I really don't think I'm being hypocriticl at all. I'm going to buy what I want and I'd rather buy an American made product. They can build it here for less than Japan can build it and ship it here and they can make it as well as anyone can.

 

[Taiser]

I like that you think that my 92 Acura INTEGRA is a flagship (basically a rebadged Civic) and I only paid a couple grand more than my sister's Cavalier for it.

Did you think I was comparing an Acura TL to a Cavalier???? Both the cars I was comparing are in the same class and roughly same price range....well they were back then anyways, but you're right they are not in the same league IMHO. In fact I'd put a reliability test of ANY Honda, Acura etc against any domestic vehicle manufacturer. They might not win all the time but they would be real close, even if the "cadilac" costs 3 times as much.

Did you read the links I provided in my previous post? Most are comments from mechanics that actually WORK on these cars. They don't slam US cars either, just point out the problems of both sides of the camp, including the Japanese cars. They are not perfect but the numbers are all there and every year they're quality keeps going up. So are Domestic car makers but they are still playing catch up after 20 years!

I never said everything japanese was better, I'm a fan of MANY domestic products, including tractors...just not cars! Again I believe they (cars) have gotten much better just not as good as the Japanese. And now with all the problems with the domestic automakers they probably never will. It really doesn't matter anyways. My car has a "made in Japan" sticker on it, but most of them now are made in Canada/USA so it really is a global market. I toured a GM plant once and a Honda plant a few years ago, lets just say it's an eye opener. It's all about quality control and at that time, and I'm sure still now, the GM plant was lacking.

I got no problem with DEERE for example, I think they make awesome tractors. The only reason I went with Kubota was the dealer here does not sell CUT's and the nearest dealer (200km away) gave me a price that was WAY higher than the 'bota for practically the same machine, when I asked him why it was so much more than the Kubota quote I already had he said "Well, it's a Deere!" WTH kind of answer was that? The only thing different on the machines was PC and it was actually a smaller machine overall with 26hp vs my 30hp. Why would I spend 3 grand more for PC (which is nice but will probably never use) and LESS hp? Again for the 100 hours or so a year I will put on these machines they should last me a lifetime, so why would I shell out more money for an = quality machine that will do the same work? Prestige? Green Paint? If they were close to the same price then I would have seriously thougth about the Deere (maybe even if it was a bit more )

I also agree, Unions are killing these markets. They are pricing US/Canadian products out of the market place and eventually it will cause major problems in the global competition world.

My $0.02!

Cheers!

 

[Builder]

And I've owned 2 japanese cars, one Honda and one Nissan and they were both junk. Honda transmission grenaded at 50K. Then again at 90K.
Just sold one of my Ford Superduties. Got 7&1/2 yrs of commercial service from it without a problem.

My wife owns an '07 Volvo XC90. A beautiful car, but after only 6 months, the A/C broke during a 90* temp trip to the beach (engine is made by Yamaha of Japan, Denso elec system), the wipers broke and the catalytic converter shield is hanging down about 2" off the road.



FYI Builder - Your wife's Volvo is owned by FORD, the truck company that sold you your Superduty with no problems.

Owned, yes, but it's still built in Sweden and has a japanese engine & transmission. only .3% of it is American made.

 

[Builder]

I like that you think that my 92 Acura INTEGRA is a flagship (basically a rebadged Civic) and I only paid a couple grand more than my sister's Cavalier for it.

Did you think I was comparing an Acura TL to a Cavalier???? Both the cars I was comparing are in the same class and roughly same price range....well they were back then anyways, but you're right they are not in the same league IMHO. In fact I'd put a reliability test of ANY Honda, Acura etc against any domestic vehicle manufacturer. They might not win all the time but they would be real close, even if the "cadilac" costs 3 times as much.

Did you read the links I provided in my previous post? Most are comments from mechanics that actually WORK on these cars. They don't slam US cars either, just point out the problems of both sides of the camp, including the Japanese cars. They are not perfect but the numbers are all there and every year they're quality keeps going up. So are Domestic car makers but they are still playing catch up after 20 years!

I never said everything japanese was better, I'm a fan of MANY domestic products, including tractors...just not cars! Again I believe they (cars) have gotten much better just not as good as the Japanese. And now with all the problems with the domestic automakers they probably never will. It really doesn't matter anyways. My car has a "made in Japan" sticker on it, but most of them now are made in Canada/USA so it really is a global market. I toured a GM plant once and a Honda plant a few years ago, lets just say it's an eye opener. It's all about quality control and at that time, and I'm sure still now, the GM plant was lacking.

I got no problem with DEERE for example, I think they make awesome tractors. The only reason I went with Kubota was the dealer here does not sell CUT's and the nearest dealer (200km away) gave me a price that was WAY higher than the 'bota for practically the same machine, when I asked him why it was so much more than the Kubota quote I already had he said "Well, it's a Deere!" WTH kind of answer was that? The only thing different on the machines was PC and it was actually a smaller machine overall with 26hp vs my 30hp. Why would I spend 3 grand more for PC (which is nice but will probably never use) and LESS hp? Again for the 100 hours or so a year I will put on these machines they should last me a lifetime, so why would I shell out more money for an = quality machine that will do the same work? Prestige? Green Paint? If they were close to the same price then I would have seriously thougth about the Deere (maybe even if it was a bit more )

I also agree, Unions are killing these markets. They are pricing US/Canadian products out of the market place and eventually it will cause major problems in the global competition world.

My $0.02!

Cheers!

I don't think any comparison where one costs thousands more than the other is a fair comparison. The products should be nearly equal in price to be a fair comparison. Your Acura/Cavalier example could be highly flawed. You paid more for it. You could have garaged your car or taken better care of it than the Cavalier. Heck my neighbor still has a Dodge "Aires" K-car from back in the mid- 80's becuase he took care of it. I have a 16 yr old IH dumptruck that looks & runs perfect.

Foreign car dealers have just as many service bays around back as American car dealers.

The other guy's comparison af a Porsche that's double the price of a 'Vette is silly, well DUH! I hope the Porsche's better, it costs twice as much.

IMO, Deere is a little more expensive, but has a far more extensive dealer network and better parts availability. My L-35 & L-39 ownership experiences have proven that their parts network stinks. My L-35 was down several times and parts took over a week to get. Deere can get almost any part overnight.

 

[Superduper]

I think the point of the original post is lost here and it's turned into a east meets west thread. Not that I think there was any point to the original post anyhow to wit: poster does not own a deere. Poster says kubota is better built and heavier duty than deere because it "looks like it," poster has decided to go with Kubota, Poster does not own and has not bought a kubota. Poster has disappeared from thread. So why are we here again????

 

[aesanders]

I think the point of the original post is lost here and it's turned into a east meets west thread. Not that I think there was any point to the original post anyhow to wit: poster does not own a deere. Poster says kubota is better built and heavier duty than deere because it "looks like it," poster has decided to go with Kubota, Poster does not own and has not bought a kubota. Poster has disappeared from thread. So why are we here again????

Well, their is no rule from posts taking a life of their own wether the original poster has disappeared or not. Let the discussions keep flowing I say.

 

[JerryG]

I think the point of the original post is lost here and it's turned into a east meets west thread. Not that I think there was any point to the original post anyhow to wit: poster does not own a deere. Poster says kubota is better built and heavier duty than deere because it "looks like it," poster has decided to go with Kubota, Poster does not own and has not bought a kubota. Poster has disappeared from thread. So why are we here again????

Can't wait until he gets that new tractor if he ever does and it has a problem.