deck question

[stevess]

firgured since i use the lower level to store the tractor this would be an appropriate question. this deck has carpeting, then plywood and underneath old tongue and groove that you can see has been repaired along time ago. about 3/4 of the deck is covered by an overhang. i need some ideas on a floor surface. please have a look at the photos and tell me what you think. the structure seems sound but the board seem like they,v seen better days. started puilling the rug because of the moist smell and man it looks like quite the project.
thanks steve

 

[stevess]

here are a few more pix. thanks for looking

 

[woodlandfarms]

What do you want on it and how waterproof do you want it? It is well constructed and looks to be able to support most / all building materials. Tile, exotic hardwood, tar and gravel.... What do you want?

 

[stevess]

Hi, thanks for responding. I guess i'd like waterproof but cost and labor is always a consideration. i was gonna try and do it myself but i may be in over my head. do i have to remove all the boards or can i just lay something over it.... or can i refinish these boards..... or should i start fresh? i really didn't consider tar-gravel-tile or exotic wood but youve peeked my interest. thanks for your ideas! i guess labor at this point would be the greatest consideration if i can save myself time and aggravation i would gladly find more money. oh, and of course the wife has to like the look of it!

 

[blueriver]

Hi, thanks for responding. I guess i'd like waterproof but cost and labor is always a consideration. i was gonna try and do it myself but i may be in over my head. do i have to remove all the boards or can i just lay something over it.... or can i refinish these boards..... or should i start fresh? i really didn't consider tar-gravel-tile or exotic wood but youve peeked my interest. thanks for your ideas! i guess labor at this point would be the greatest consideration if i can save myself time and aggravation i would gladly find more money. oh, and of course the wife has to like the look of it!

How about pressure wash the boards clean, the old junk including paint should come right off ... then maybe deck stain or water seal ??

That thing is really built well.

 

[stevess]

i was thinking the same thing but some of the boards seem to be alittle soft. how do i check? the underside as you can see looks pretty good. i was also thinking of renting a drum sander.
steve

 

[BeezFun]

If the goal is to water proof the floor to protect the tractor underneath, I'd approach it by putting up something under the deck to catch and route the water to a gutter. Then just use the deck above as a plain old deck. There's been a number of threads over the years on guys that have used everything from corrugated metal to siding, they hang it something like a suspended ceiling and mount a gutter along the low edge. Some of them look better than the ceiling in some houses.

I think anything you put on a flat surface to make it water proof is going to be a hassle. It will pool water against the side of your house in a rainstorm, and will require maintenance to keep it waterproof. Every time someone drags a heavy chair or table leg along your floor it's likely to damage the waterproofness.

 

[beeforty]

If you think it is soft, poke at it with an awl or pocket knife. Compare with a good piece of 2 x 4, if it goes in too easily it is because of the carpet on top of the plywood. I had a simmilar situation that I did to my porch several years ago and had to replace from joists up to deck due to rot. The layers trap moisture and it's all down hill from there. Looking at your 2nd pic in the first post i see what looks like black wood (rotting/fungus usually) and rusting nails. Rusty nails eat holes in wood. I pulled 16' 1x4's off roof rafters by hand when reroofing a shed that didn't have tarpaper put on first, turned board over and shook the nails out. You have a good size deck but I would bite the bullet and take it all off. Some one has already patched it so you will only be patching/covering a patch if you are comfortable with that. Not to pick on you but your 2nd set of pics the double 2X' on the flat for headers would be undersized for the span in CA. as the 2X on the front appears to be just decoration and not weight bearing. Like Beez says hang a roof under neath> then you can put the kind odeck you like on top>

 

[stevess]

thanks again, more to ponder. kinda knew about the span being questionable and was done along time ago so i'm not sure if actually up to snuff.
steve

 

[BeezFun]

kinda knew about the span being questionable and was done along time ago so i'm not sure if actually up to snuff.
steve

It's not up to snuff, I'd check the span tables to see what you need and get that fixed. It wouldn't be too hard, just shore up those joists and either slide in a piece of steel, or take a block off the piers and put in some 2x. Looks like that might be a headbanger, so steel would probably be better. That's probably why they undersized it in the first place.

 

[stevess]

see what you mean about the steel. i guess when i start removing the floor which looks like my only option, i'll deal with joist support. i'll get someone to look at the span. thanks for all again.... looks like i have some work to do
steve

 

[MotorSeven]

Carpet was a bad idea. But why is it getting so wet? How much roof overhang do you have?

 

[BeezFun]

see what you mean about the steel. i guess when i start removing the floor which looks like my only option, i'll deal with joist support. i'll get someone to look at the span. thanks for all again.... looks like i have some work to do
steve

Not sure what your skill level is, but span tables are online. If you google "span tables joists headers" you'll find many. If you don't know how to use them post again, someone will help. It will be necessary to know the dimension from the wall to the end of the cantilever, the dimension from the wall to center of pier, and the distance between piers to figure out how much loading will be on that span. I'm guessing a W flange beam would easily handle that load in the space you have available.

 

[stevess]

the overhang doesn't cover all but most of the deck. if you notice in the photo the worst areas were exposed to the water-sun im guessing they covered it with carpet because they knew it was so bad underneath. beez thanks again and i'll take some measurments tomorrow. where can i get one of those w beams?
steve

 

[MotorSeven]

thanks again, more to ponder. kinda knew about the span being questionable and was done along time ago so i'm not sure if actually up to snuff.
steve

Well if it is still structurally sound and it's been there for years, I don't think I would worry about the span unless you think the structural wood is rotted. If you go ripping out beams and posts it's going to cost a lot of money, so make darn sure that needs to be done first. The decking does not look that bad, hose it down with bleach ad see what it looks like with all the mold/mildew gone.

I think the biggest problem is not enough overhang(not much you can do about that), then the use of T&G that gets wet every time it rains. Hard to tell through pic's, but I am thinking remove the T&G, then re-deck with pressure treated leaving gaps for the water to go through & put in proper flashing at the sill.

 

[stevess]

have some measurements. the wall to end of deck is 122 1/2 inches-
wall to end of pier is 81 inches
pier spacing is 50 inches on first
105 inches on second
82 inches on third
86 inches on forth

how do these sound?
thanks
steve

 

[BeezFun]

have some measurements. the wall to end of deck is 122 1/2 inches-
wall to end of pier is 81 inches
pier spacing is 50 inches on first
105 inches on second
82 inches on third
86 inches on forth

The 105" spacing controls the beam size, a lot depends on quality of lumber but you either need two 2x12s or three 2x10s, assuming I didn't make a mistake. That assumes 40psf live load, 10psf dead load. If you have lots of snow or a grand piano out there you should bump that up a little. So what's there is really undersized. It will take a little calculating to figure out what size steel beam is required. Even if I come up with a beam, I'd go pay a structural engineer for an hour of their time to do the calculation for you.

 

[stevess]

thanks beezfun! i will get an engineer to look at it. i think i've been lucky and i won't let anyone out there till it's fixed. to think i've had all the family out there for get togethers, gives me the chills.
steve

 

[BeezFun]

thanks beezfun! i will get an engineer to look at it. i think i've been lucky and i won't let anyone out there till it's fixed. to think i've had all the family out there for get togethers, gives me the chills.
steve

An easy temporary fix would be to buy some shoring jacks at Menards and add them to the existing pier supports. I'd add two in the long span, one at midpoint on each of the other spans. They're probably only about $10-20 each.

It seems like the rest of that deck is pretty well built, those piers could hold up your house. Are you sure there isn't a piece of steel in there that isn't obvious, or some structural element that's not obvious in the pictures? For example is there a piece of steel between those two 2x4's laying down and that skirt board in front of them? It's surprising there isn't a lot of sag, especially in that long span. You might string line along the bottom of the beam and see how much it's deflected.

 

[stevess]

just checked for steel and i didn't see anything in there. i remember when we first bought the house about 11 years ago, it had a wrought iron railing. wife didn't like it so i removed it and had someone install the wood railing as it sits now. if i remember correctly i think the big span did have a couple of steel supports but he removed them for some reason. that wrought iron must have weighed a ton or more.
"the house that jack built"
steve