Deer & Dogs

[Jag]

In a way I hate to start this thread, but it did happen, and is a problem in my area and maybe others. Monday morning I am outside starting to load my tractor on my trailer and two dogs run a doe through the back yard (I am way out in the country), and take her down in a briar thicket about 100 yards form the house. I run down and try to get the dogs off the deer, and can not. I end up killing one dog, and the other runs off. The doe is badly maulled and lays there for about an hour before moving on off a ways. I did get several pictures of the doe before she moved off. Seem she will live.

The dog did have a collar with the owner's name and number. It is illegal to run dogs here in Arkasas this time of year due to the doe's carring fawns. Well my wife calls the sheriff and game warden, I end up spending all morning going over this with them. In the end I may be taken to court to pay for the cost of the dog. For now, it has not been decided if charges will be filed against the dog's owner for running the dogs. They may have gotten out of there pen and were not being actually been run. (The owner only lives about 16 miles from me.) Also how the local prosecutor and judge feels about the case seems to make a difference. I hated to do this but I could not watch while the dogs killed the deer.

 

[dmccarty]

Jag,

Sorry to hear about your incident. Its a tough call but the bottom line is do YOU think it was the right thing to do? YOU are the one that has to look at yourself in the mirror. If you had not killed the dog and saved the deer how would you have felt? I'm sure you are not exactly happy having to kill the dog but which would have been worse? Doing nothing and watching the dog kill the doe? Or doing what you did? YOU are the only one that can answer that question.

I don't know what I would have done in your situation. I don't want to know either... Its almost a no win situation.

You might want to talk to a lawyer. In North Carolina if a dog is attacking your livestock you can kill the dog. But I don't think a deer is considered livestock. I think the state "owns" the deer. In Florida pigs, wild or not, are considered the property of the landowner so they can be killed at any time of the year. Of course if you felt threatened by the dogs that's a whole new ball game....

In North Carolina, a citizen can use whatever force is "reasonable and necessary" to stop a criminal act. I don't have a clue if that has ever been used in a situation like yours. Contray to Goober on Andy Griffth, there is not a "Citizen's Arrest" power in North Carolina. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Again you might need a lawyer depending on what actions law enfocement/DA decide to take.

Good luck and let us know what happens.....
Dan McCarty

 

[Von]

I don't know if it is still legal, but in NY it was legal to shot or kill any dog that was running deer on your property. It is illegal to hunt deer with dogs here in NY. I have heard of others shooting dogs doing this and the owner of the dogs are fined. Hope the right actions are taken against the dog owner. He should be fined for his dogs actions, as he is the one responsable for them.

 

[BBearden]

I would have done the same thing. In Texas where I live, there's a $500 fine for dogs running loose. (Lot's of goat around here). If it were my dog, I would not hold it against you at all. Hate to see you cough up the money for the dog. You did the right thing. Sounds like less trouble not to call anyone concerning the incident. Good luck.

 

[GlueGuy]

I agree with what you did. Sorry it looks like it's taking a turn south.

We discovered one of our neighbor's dogs running deer on our property a few weeks ago. We called him, and came to a "reasonable" understanding with him. Big difference was that his two dogs are still pups, and probably couldn't take a deer down (yet). He is putting up an invisible fence to keep them inside his compound area. He also was not pleased to hear that his young dogs had started doing that.

The GlueGuy

 

[skent]

I would have done the same thing. Two years ago I had a problem with a stray mixed breed, about 80 pound dog bothering my Black Lab. My dog is liscensed and in a kennel. Never left loose to wander. The stray spent several days wandering back and forth between us and a neighbor(neighbor didn't know who's dog it was either). My daughters had rabbits at the time and one of them (rabbit) was almost killed by the stray. My daughters would go feed the rabbits in teams - one with a shovel (in case the stray showed up) and one to feed the bunnys.

All it took was for the stray to growl ONCE at my daughter, he passed away, suddenly. Cause? High speed lead poisoning. (Rem222 60 grain at 100 yards.) No collar, no ID.

Our hopes for a fast and fair resolution are with you, JAG.

Steve

 

[DaveNH]

Term used around here.
Shoot, shovel and shut up! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

We're all in this together! (3)
Executive Ex-Yuppie Tractor Owner
<font color=orange>[Advertise your business here]</font color=orange>

 

[DennisY]

Unfortunately, Dave's Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up advice is probably the most pratical solution. My grandfather used to say that the dogs had more rights than the sheep, poultry, deer etc. Bottom line--do it and say nothing to anyone.

 

[ERNIEB]

Yet another of those sad signs of the time.
<font color=blue>(The owner only lives about 16 miles from me.)</font color=blue>
Only? I don't have a dog now, but have had them in the past. This seems a bit far for a dog to have roamed, unless they have been out for days.

Ernie

 

[cowboydoc]

I'd have shot him too. If they would take down a deer like that they will take down livestock as well. When I grew up if a dog ever went after livestock they were put down. Just had this personally happen two weeks ago. Our rottweiler that we've had for four years and have never had one little problem with went after one of the calves when my wife was out feeding. He tore the calf's ear off and took a good chunk of the hide off of his head and throat. My wife went after him and then he turned on her. He didn't bite her but didn't want her getting between him and that calf. She kept yelling and throwing rocks at him and finally he gave up. I had the vet out and put him down the next day. I hated to do it but no way I could take a chance on that with my two little girls. They were heartbroke but I bought them a chocolate lab puppy and all is going well.

 

[skent]

Lab Puppies. . . . .Best dog we ever had around children. We have a Black lab, about 6 years old now. She had a litter of 14 puppies, father was golden retriever. Pups are 6 months old now. Some were yellow labs, some were black labs. Truely a devoted family dog. All they want is attention.
Good choice!

Steve

 

[Billc]

Some really good stories.

My wife loves anything with fur. We have lots of strays around our place. People drop stuff (dogs, cats, pot belly pigs, etc) off on our road all the time. I won't let my wife take any strays in, I know we'd end up with a zoo. We also have coyotes around. Most are half breeds.

Anyway, all was going well until our neighbor's dog attacked our 8 lb. ****zu (spelling). ****zu is a Japanese word meaning: Critter with big bug eyes and a large wang on a tiny body. We don't have kids, so this dog is my wife's baby. After the attack all bets were off. She said for me to shoot anything that didn't have a colar.

I get really angry at the city people who buy a cute pup for the kids, then the cute pup grows to 80 lbs or so and is tied up in the back yard alone. Finally they carry their dog into the country and let it go thinking people out here will take care of it.

Yea, I get to take care of the strays, but I sure don't like it.

Bill Cook

 

[Boondox]

We get that all the time in our work with golden retriever rescue. Folks buy that cute little golden pup in the pet store, knowing nothing about the bad breeding and terrible conditions in many puppy mills. They can't understand why the dog develops health and aggression problems, or simply know nothing about dogs' needs and wind up with an out of control youngster. Typically the adolescent dog winds up in the back yard with little or no care. Once we actually took in a golden that had been kept in a basement for three years!

The most difficult part of rescue is being nice to the jerks who abuse or neglect the dogs...at least long enough to get their signatures on the surrender form!

Check out the rescue page on our Web site.

Pete in Dog Paradise

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[skent]

The thing I found with Golden Retrivers is the 6 month to 18 month range. It's the time their body grows faster than their coordination. The are very active, and very active, and did I say very active? But let me tell you, It's well worth tolerating their "activity" during that period, because once they grow out of it (around 2 years old) they are THE most devoted family breed around. Hard to fing a more forgiving and loyal dog.

Steve

 

[M. Sullivan]

You did the right thing imo. The fact they were there (either by design or as escapee's) shows the possibility for a repeat (16 miles is WAY too far). Also, in that they tore into the deer shows their propensity to do so in general (again, imo). I had a great dog (Akita) that would chase them all day, but never attack--only in it for the exercise... Finally, the fact that you were unable to seperate them labels them flat-out dangerous imo. You did your neighbors, their livestock, pets and kids a favor.

 

[JOR_EL]

Interesting thread.

Brings to mind that hallway-attack/death of the young woman in SF, ...as a prime example of people ignoring their responsibility re. ownership of potentially-dangerous animals(dogs)! When people get that "MY DOG can/will do-no-wrong!" mentality, it's time for them BOTH to go.

Larry

 

[skent]

Agreed!

I'm ALWAYS telling my kids (when they play with the labs) to always remember it is an animal and is not always capable of communication!

Steve

 

[MarkV]

Jag,

I am glad you started this thread. I have the same situation going on at our place, in the mountains, in N. Georgia. There have been a couple of hounds running deer the last few weeks. I can tell the dogs have collars but have not gotten close enough to see who owns them. The deer seem to be holding there own, but I worry about my dogs getting into it with these hunting dogs. Our dogs are city dogs and I don't think they would stand a chance against these country hunting dogs. Our dogs are family, to us, and I would do what ever I had to to protect them. Just hope I don't have to. Let us know what happens.

MarkV

 

[Jag]

Mark, like I said here in Arkansas it is illegal to run dogs this time of year. You need to ckeck with the state game and fish department. At least call the local game warden and let him know that you are having problems. I get to talk to my local officer about once a month and he has keys to get into all the gates on my property. Hope they can help...

 

[Boondox]

Reading between the lines it sounds to me like the dead dog showed some aggression toward you...and that you feared for your personal safety. Might make a world of difference in the legal world, though I'm no lawyer.

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com