Deer hunting with iron sights.

[Egon]

Some good posts regarding open sights (and especially peeps) in the above posts. I think post 51 above sums it up well.

The past few years I've been playing with Marlin lever guns. Ive got mostly Skinner peeps installed on the guns in 22 cal, 38/357 and 44 mag. Lots of fun to shoot at our steel plate range.....along with some revolvers. I feel quite good about shots to 100 yards or so with the peeps. But this is under good light conditions and just hitting the plate - anywhere.

When it comes to a well placed shot on big game.....I still revert back to a scoped rifle with 1 MOA of accuracy to get the job done right. Sure, I could kill a deer in the woods with these peep sighted guns to 100 yards or so under good condtions.... .but that buck of a lifetime is sure to show....and he may be 200 yards away in a dimly lit forest.

This 100 yard range for open sights has got me really confused.

Many of my extended family prior to the 1950's regularly shot game as a source of food. No scopes; only open sights. My grandmothers brother regularly shot Moose at 500 yards with a peep sight on on a Winchester model 70 30-06.

They used to travel back to the hunting country with horse and sleigh. Set up a tent camp and proceeded to bring home the winter meat. No scopes. Mostly lever action rifles of the 30-30 type. Game was mostly elk and moose.

 

[vtsnowedin]

This 100 yard range for open sights has got me really confused.

Many of my extended family prior to the 1950's regularly shot game as a source of food. No scopes; only open sights. My grandmothers brother regularly shot Moose at 500 yards with a peep sight on on a Winchester model 70 30-06.

They used to travel back to the hunting country with horse and sleigh. Set up a tent camp and proceeded to bring home the winter meat. No scopes. Mostly lever action rifles of the 30-30 type. Game was mostly elk and moose.

I hear you.
While most rifles today will shoot close to or under one MOA, most hunters can't shoot into less then four MOA without a vise like sandbag rest. A good shot with a peep sight can out do ninety percent of the hunters out there that have bought a nice outfit but haven't taken the time to get really proficient with it.

 

[Chilly807]

Lots of good posts.. I used to have a an old .303 Lee Enfield with a rear peep, you could set that thing for probably a thousand yards, considering where it was when zeroed at 100 yards. I shot quite a few deer with that old gun, bought it well used at Home Hardware in the early 80's. It's only real flaws were heavy weight, and a barrel that was badly pitted. Shot good for about the first three shots, then got loose as the barrel heated up. The thing about peep sights that most folks don't realize is that your eye naturally centers the target in the peep. They do block out quite a bit of light, though.

My .270 has a Bushnell 1.5-4.5 scope, since most of my shots aren't long. The 1.5x setting is close to zero magnification, which is what it stays set on for 95% of my hunting. If it's a longer shot, you generally have time to crank it up to 4.5x then get a good look at what you're shooting at.

My 32 Special has open iron, and is deadly accurate to at least 100 yds, which is as far as I've shot it at the range. My problem is I'm not that accurate anymore at that distance, especially in poor light. Give me 20 year old eyes again and I'll shoot the fillings out of your teeth. My idea of an ideal setup out to 100 yards or so is a laser dot with good optics to show you where on the animal the dot is. If you have to hold over the animal to hit it, that won't work.

One of my concerns is not being able to see what's behind the deer, such as someone's horse, the corner of their house, or God forbid their child. Sounds pretty bad, I know, but how often have you been out walking and found yourself almost in someone's back yard, before you melt back into the trees and get some hunting room? If you know the area well, that doesn't happen, but I've often hunted areas I wasn't familiar with as someone's guest. I'm careful, we all are, but stupid stuff happens on occasion.

It's the scenario where a flicker of motion catches your eye, then when you put the scope up, you can see a nose, then an eye, and finally the whole animal behind a screen of brush. What else you see is what makes the difference whether you take the shot or not. In an open field it's not usually an issue, but I seldom hunt open fields.

I'm not saying don't hunt with iron sights, but be aware of exactly what you're shooting at and what's behind it.

Sean

 

[foggy1111]

This 100 yard range for open sights has got me really confused.

Many of my extended family prior to the 1950's regularly shot game as a source of food. No scopes; only open sights. My grandmothers brother regularly shot Moose at 500 yards with a peep sight on on a Winchester model 70 30-06.

They used to travel back to the hunting country with horse and sleigh. Set up a tent camp and proceeded to bring home the winter meat. No scopes. Mostly lever action rifles of the 30-30 type. Game was mostly elk and moose.

Yep....I've shot peep sights out to some fairly long ranges in the army....and under good light and with "young eyes" it can be done. But....my vision is not what it used to be....and in the forest you don't exactly have good light....especially dusk / dawn when the big boys usually show up.

Going back in time.....most of our ancestors didn't really know what long-range hunting was all about....as compared to hunters in the last 30 years or so. Not saying "all"...but most folks didn't THINK about 200 yard shots with the old guns. Bench rest shooting, varmint hunters and todays rifle ranges have done allot into making long range hunting possible - not to mention the enormous strides in guns, optics, and todays bullets, etc. Some of the old guns were good for long range shooting....but many were not long-range numbers.

I doubt many of those old 30-30 rifles ever took game beyond 200 yards. MOST of them simply are not up to the task....and they lack the punch of modern cartriges...especially on elk and moose. Then too.....lots of hunter like to stretch the truth on some of the stories about long shots. I've taken elk and deer at ranges exceeding 500 yards.....and most hunters are not capable of doing so without the right gun, ammo, and LOTS of experience and practice at long range shooting.....at least if you want to do so reliably.

I rest my case.

 

[Tollster]

Theres a time for scopes and a time for open sites. Scopes are nice for stands, sitting,and still hunting, as well as low light conditions providing the exit aperture is greater than 4MM (diameter of a fully dialated pupil, Objective divided by scope power). But some of my most memorable shots where with open sites, particularly in thick dense over growth and deer on the run. If ya jump a big buck in thick overgrowth, open sites are your best friend! (besides a lever action)

 

[N80]

Well, to respond to the post about shooting things at 500 yards.....well there is long range shooting and then there is long range shooting. I could go out in my B-I-L's pastures and shoot at does at 300-400 yards all day long. I'd miss most of them. Maybe cripple a couple. But eventually I would drop one. And then I'd go around telling people I shoot deer at 400 yards.......................

 

[N80]

I'm not saying don't hunt with iron sights, but be aware of exactly what you're shooting at and what's behind it.

Sean

I think that is a good point and ALWAYS has to be of utmost concern. Fortunately on my property, which is heavily wooded, what is behind is not usually a concern. Walking in by neighbor's fields is another story. Barns, house, cows, folks on tractors always a major concern.

When I think about most of the deer I've killed I'd say the majority were under 75 yards, maybe 50 yards. And typically the scenario is that as soon as they stop, within clear view that is when I shoot. I usually don't have to wait for them to get closer because if I can see them they are in range with a scoped rifle. And the closer they get the more likely they are to see me since I sit on the ground. With a peep sight the deer will need to be stopped and in clear view but I will also have to let it get closer. Just like if I were using a bow, etc. A lot of them won't come close enough. A lot of them will see or smell me if they do get close enough.....but again, that is what I'm hoping will make it more fun and I'm assuming that is why folks bow hunt.....surely they don't do it just so they can hunt in September, in SC, when it is 90 degrees outside.....:laughing:

 

[foggy1111]

Well, to respond to the post about shooting things at 500 yards.....well there is long range shooting and then there is long range shooting. I could go out in my B-I-L's pastures and shoot at does at 300-400 yards all day long. I'd miss most of them. Maybe cripple a couple. But eventually I would drop one. And then I'd go around telling people I shoot deer at 400 yards.......................

Yep....I agree with you George. As I said, MOST folks have no business attempting those kind of shots...they lack the equipment, ammo, training and practice to do so.

However under the right conditions and with the right gear (gun, ammo, scope with target knobs, rangefinder, rifle rest and more)....these shots can be reliably accomplished. Several years ago, I was manufacturing precision reloading tools and gun rests for hunters. I had lots of experience with varmints and competitive target shooting at long ranges. It can be done....IF you do your homework.

But there are no short-cuts....and most folks just do not have the gear or are willing to do the work required to do this. (YOu also gotta have the right conditions....and be able to "just say no" to a long shot.)

I never backed-up to claim a long shot.....but with practice the long shots can be as reliable for an accomplished rilfeman.....as a mid range shot for a typical hunter.

 

[Chilly807]

Something no one's mentioned is the ability (or inability) of the eye to focus on more than one object. I was taught that the rear sight largely goes out of focus once the attention shifts to the front sight and the target. Once you have the front sight where you want it in relation to the rear sight, then your focus should shift to solely the front sight and the target, since the eye can normally focus on those two items. That's one of the advantages to using peep sights, since the eye automatically centers the target in the peep.

If the gun doesn't fit you properly, maintaining that sight relationship is hard.

It's like focusing an old SLR camera, once you're past a certain distance then everything from that point to infinity is also sharp.

One of the benefits of an optical sight is that the reticle and the target appear to be in the same plane. Parallax can play a role at close distances, but it usually isn't enough of a problem to be a real concern on a deer sized target.

As an item of interest, I used to bowhunt using a peep sight in the string. Never really liked them, then I tried a product from Timberline called a "No-Peep". It was basically a alignment tool to place your eye in the same spot in relation to the bow every time. With a little bit of set-up time and some practice, it was deadly both for hunting and target shooting. A glance at it told you if your anchor was correct, then you could concentrate on the front sight and shoot. You could easily see if you were torquing the bow or out of position. If you can lay hands on one of these things, I highly recommend them. Timberline is now out of business, but you can still find them here and there.

Timberline Archery Products

Sean

 

[N80]

Won a Lyman 57 peep sight on eBay. Its new. Has the target knobs rather than screws. This could be good and bad. Good that they are easy to adjust, but not sure how well they will stay in place. I'm assuming you there are marks for where is is 'zero'd' at so you can put it back where it needs to be if the knobs get turned by accident.

Will have to modify the stock a tiny bit but should have it mounted by this weekend. Then I'll try to get it sighted in. Also need to sight in the Ruger in .358 win and check the .270, and 7mm-08. I'm going to have a sore shoulder.