Deere 2R vs 3R

[WinterDeere]

Howdy folks,

I'm shopping a new tractor, an upgrade and replacement to my faithful old 855, and looking at the largest 2R and smallest 3R offerings from Deere. Looking for opinions from anyone who has had or owned both.

My uses are:

1. Spreading seed and fertilizer on my lawn (4 acres).
2. Skidding logs off of my firewood trailer (all < 5000 lb., most actually < 1000 lb.)
3. Moving 40 yards of mulch each spring.
4. Moving firewood around my wood lot.
5. Occasionally skidding logs out of the woods to my trailer.
6. Moving various things like firewood sheds or chicken coops about the property.
7. Harvesting walnuts every fall with some small walnut harvesters.
8. Moving snow with loader and snowblower (currently Woods SB-64S)
9. Occasionally brush-hogging trails in the woods (currently Woods 48")

My 855 actually does most of this pretty well, with the following exceptions:

1. I could use more PTO horsepower for the snowblower, it bogs in deeper snow.
2. I could use a larger bucket for both mulch and snow
3. I could use more weight for steering when plowing with the loader.

The machines I'm considering:

2032R
2038R
3033R

The 2R's should do 99% of what I need, they outclass my old 855 in every way. But two things have me considering the 3033R:

1. Better stability when skidding the heaviest logs off my firewood trailer, I've had some frightening pulls with the 855.
2. Better weight and stability with all loader work, which has me even more concerned as my kids get older and may start using the machine.

Ignoring price, the main disadvantages of the 3033R, as I see them are:

1. Taller, might be an issue under trees when using to spread seed, fertilizer, and harvesting walnuts. My 855 ROP's already hangs up on things, and my head will now be at that height on the 3033R.
2. Larger footprint in my already-tight shed.
3. Heavier, may be more an issue for lawn use.
4. Ergonomics, I really do like the loader visibility better on the 2R's, and find the SCV control lever on the 3R's to be a nuisance for getting on and off the machine from one side.

Disadvantages of the 2R's are obvious:

1. Lighter
2. Smaller
3. Less capacity
4. Stupid location of diff lock pedal where you're probably going to step on 4wd lever when trying to use it.

The 2R's are obviously a little less expensive, but machine, fuel, and maintenance costs are not a primary consideration. They're not far enough apart in cost for that to matter much.

Thoughts?

 

[airbiscuit]

Wow, you are right on the bubble there - both would be an upgrade for you. That said, I think ou would be with the larger frame 3x. It just is MORE.

PS: trim the limbs.

 

[spitter]

Go with the 3 fold down ropes when under trees.If you are that worried about the lawn go with Galaxy Turfs . A 3046r with Galaxys on the back would be a bad az looking tractor:thumbsup: . Pretty darn useful too.:drink:

 

[Oldoak]

Wow, you are right on the bubble there - both would be an upgrade for you. That said, I think ou would be with the larger frame 3x. It just is MORE.

PS: trim the limbs.

That would be my choice if it were my decision to make. :thumbsup:

 

[shooterdon]

I traded my 855 this year and glad I did. Just not big enough for my needs but it was a good little machine.

I gave up on Deere. My local dealer was so-so and pricing was outrageous. Went with an LS4140 Cab HST. Got the oversize turfs, loaded tires, third function and radio for $31k. Dealer had a good deal on a FarmKing 74" pull blower for $4k. The larger tractor made the rear attachments I was using on the 855 too small, but I saved so much I can buy new ones. Traded the brush hog and tiller. Still using the blade and rack but cannot angle as much.

If you are set on a Deere, I would get the 3 series. That was the one I priced out and it is a great machine. The loader capacity was way below what I wanted (less than half of the LS) so it got scratched quickly.

 

[WinterDeere]

Thanks, guys! Wow, I can’t imagine needing more loader capacity than the 3033R, for what I do. I’m more headed the other direction, with the loader capacity that machine has (2125 lb. at pin), I’m thinking filled tires are almost mandatory. That machine with filled tires and loader is going to to run 4600 lb, and I’m not sure I want to be using that all over my lawn on a daily basis.

There’s no doubt the 3033R is better than the 2038R in every way but horsepower and price, but when is a machine too big for it’s intended purpose? I suspect I’ll regret going with the 2R a few times per year, when I need to move something real heavy, but I worry I might regret going with the 3R every other day of the year. That’s sort of where my head is.

I’m so happy with my local Deere dealer, that I didn’t even consider other brands. They have a half-dozen local locations, and seem to always have every part I ever need in stock, if Deere still makes the part (and sometimes new old stock, even when Deere doesn’t make it, anymore!). I can share the pricing they gave me, if you guys want to give an opinion on that and it’s not against the forum rules, but I’m not really too worried about finding the lowest-cost machine. My number one priority is zero down time, and a dealer network that will always have every part I need in stock, for quick repairs when they’re needed.

 

[BigBlue1]

The weight may be a big consideration if you are running it on a lawn. I know on my property, with fairly soft black dirt, even my 2520 can leave impressions as I drive across the lawn in wet times of the year. I would certainly love more loader capacity and higher reach but that's a trade-off that isn't worth it to be at this point.

Rob

 

[WinterDeere]

One thing I’ve been reasoning out in my head is that, ignoring side wall strength, the actual load per square inch on my lawn should be independent of the weight of the tractor. In other words, if both machines are running 15 psi in their tires, they’re going to put 15 psi on the lawn. It’s just that the larger machine is going to create a larger contact patch, due to it’s weight.

Heavy tires with strong side walls (eg. R4’s) will invalidate this theory, I’ve heard folks claim they can support the weight of the machine pretty well with zero air in the tires, because their construction is so heavy. But if running 4-ply turf tires or Ag tires, both of which are of pretty flimsy construction, this theory may hold roughly true?

 

[LouNY]

One thing I’ve been reasoning out in my head is that, ignoring side wall strength, the actual load per square inch on my lawn should be independent of the weight of the tractor. In other words, if both machines are running 15 psi in their tires, they’re going to put 15 psi on the lawn. It’s just that the larger machine is going to create a larger contact patch, due to it’s weight.

Heavy tires with strong side walls (eg. R4’s) will invalidate this theory, I’ve heard folks claim they can support the weight of the machine pretty well with zero air in the tires, because their construction is so heavy. But if running 4-ply turf tires or Ag tires, both of which are of pretty flimsy construction, this theory may hold roughly true?

Nope,
measure or calculate the number of square inches of the foot prints of your tires on the rear axle on the ground,
do the same for the front tires.
With the total square inches of foot print for the front axle and the rear axle, go to your friendly local scale and weigh your tractor getting the front axle weight and a rear axle weight.
Once you have those two weights divide the rear axle weight by the number of square inch for the ground contact and that will be the approximate weight per square inch on the rear, now do it for the front and you will know what ground pressure you may be putting down.
Of course this will change with tire pressure changes, fuel weight changes, weight of the operator, weight and weight distribution of any mounted implements, and the slope of the ground for a few variables.
Have fun

 

[WinterDeere]

Nope,
measure or calculate the number of square inches of the foot prints of your tires on the rear axle on the ground,
do the same for the front tires.
With the total square inches of foot print for the front axle and the rear axle, go to your friendly local scale and weigh your tractor getting the front axle weight and a rear axle weight.
Once you have those two weights divide the rear axle weight by the number of square inch for the ground contact and that will be the approximate weight per square inch on the rear, now do it for the front and you will know what ground pressure you may be putting down.
Of course this will change with tire pressure changes, fuel weight changes, weight of the operator, weight and weight distribution of any mounted implements, and the slope of the ground for a few variables.
Have fun

Well, yeah... but one doesn’t refute the other. The point is, do you expect that load PSI will change that much between a 2500 lb. 2R-series on smaller tires and a 2900 lb. 3R-series on slightly larger tires? I suspect the latter will have a larger contact patch, but similar PSI loading on the lawn, and thus no worse for overall lawn damage.

 

[BigBlue1]

One thing I致e been reasoning out in my head is that, ignoring side wall strength, the actual load per square inch on my lawn should be independent of the weight of the tractor. In other words, if both machines are running 15 psi in their tires, theyæ±*e going to put 15 psi on the lawn. Itç—´ just that the larger machine is going to create a larger contact patch, due to itç—´ weight.

Heavy tires with strong side walls (eg. R4痴) will invalidate this theory, I致e heard folks claim they can support the weight of the machine pretty well with zero air in the tires, because their construction is so heavy. But if running 4-ply turf tires or Ag tires, both of which are of pretty flimsy construction, this theory may hold roughly true?

The concept is sound but you have to do what Lou said in order to get actual PSI. I have no specific basis for it, but it just seems to me that the tire size/contact patch isn't proportionally big enough on the larger tractor model to keep the PSI the same as the 2 series.

Rob

 

[WinterDeere]

The concept is sound but you have to do what Lou said in order to get actual PSI. I have no specific basis for it, but it just seems to me that the tire size/contact patch isn't proportionally big enough on the larger tractor model to keep the PSI the same as the 2 series.

Got it. That makes sense, the same happens with car tires, due to the high strength of their side walls. A latex balloon fallows this law nearly perfectly, but a car tire will typically only see an increase in patch size of 2x for an increase in tire load of 10x, meaning the psi goes up 5x. I had thought turf tires were flimsy enough, by comparison to R4’s or car tires, that it might be closer to the balloon, but perhaps not enough.

That R3 is a good bit heavier... especially when set up properly for the FEL. Some here seem to run their 2R’s with 3-point ballast only, as I’ve always done with my 855, but most seem to agree the extra lift capacity of the bigger cylinders on the 320R loader really dictates having loaded tires or a lot of iron weight. If we take that as true, then:

With loader:
R3 = 2900 lb. + 850 loader + 1200 filled tires + 750 ballast box = 5700 lb.
R2 = 2450 lb. + 750 loader + 750 ballast box = 3950 lb.

With loader and ballast box removed:
R3 = 2900 lb. + 1200 filled tires = 4100 lb.
R2 = 2450 lb.

Of course, I’d probably be happy with that extra weight (and width) when running around my hilly property, or when skidding those occasional 5000 lb. logs off my trailer. With my 855, I always made due by cutting anything much over 3000 lb. in half, and even then I was always a little terrified a log might roll sideways down the ramp on the back of the trailer and drag me over with it. I did have that machine almost tip on me at least twice.

 

[BigBlue1]

1200# for filled tires? I think filling the rears on my 2520 only added about 250#. And what does the tire style have to do with filling or not?

By the way, the ballast topic is a pretty deep on all on its own. There are plenty of threads here and on other tractor forums about it. Suffice it to say that filled rears don't really do as much for ballast as you might think. The weight needs to be behind the axle to offset the weight on the front axle. Yes, it helps keep the rear from coming off the ground but that's only part of what ballast is for.

Seems like your log problem can easily be solved by cutting them, as you describe. There can't be that much benefit in leaving them in huge sections, can there? Just how many loads of logs do you do in a year?

Rob

 

[WinterDeere]

1200# for filled tires? I think filling the rears on my 2520 only added about 250#. And what does the tire style have to do with filling or not?

By the way, the ballast topic is a pretty deep on all on its own. There are plenty of threads here and on other tractor forums about it. Suffice it to say that filled rears don't really do as much for ballast as you might think. The weight needs to be behind the axle to offset the weight on the front axle. Yes, it helps keep the rear from coming off the ground but that's only part of what ballast is for.

Seems like your log problem can easily be solved by cutting them, as you describe. There can't be that much benefit in leaving them in huge sections, can there? Just how many loads of logs do you do in a year?

Rob

Hey Rob,

Yeah, I thought 1200# (= 600#/ea) sounded high, but it's the number someone gave me. I've indeed been reading some of those long threads on ballast, as well as talking with my dealer about it. They were the ones who were pretty insistent I'd want to fill tires on the 3R tractor, although I didn't think to ask them the weight per tire, at the time. I didn't say (or mean to imply) there was any link between tire style and filling, it was about the 2100 lb. loader max lift capacity on the 3R versus the 1300 lb. on the 2R tractor, nothing to do with tire type.

I average 10 - 11 loads at 5000 lb. per load, so roughly 50 - 55,000 lb. of wood per year. If a tornado or hurricane rolls thru, as one did this spring, I can easily double that number in a given year and then almost skip the following year. I keep 100,000 - 150,000 lb (green weight) of wood on-hand at all times, to have it seasoned 2 - 3 years before it gets used. Depending on where I'm harvesting, I can get multiple loads that are just one 5000 lb. log on each load, but that's rare. Most logs are 1000 - 1500 lb. I like to store them whole until I'm ready to buck and split, as it's just faster to move and store them that way, and then drag them whole to where I buck, split, and stack them. Other systems can work, but this is the one I've found most efficient for me, and I've laid out the wood storage lot, accordingly.

 

[BigBlue1]

Hey Rob,

Yeah, I thought 1200# (= 600#/ea) sounded high, but it's the number someone gave me. I've indeed been reading some of those long threads on ballast, as well as talking with my dealer about it. They were the ones who were pretty insistent I'd want to fill tires on the 3R tractor. I didn't say (or mean to imply) there was any link between tire style and filling, it was about the 2100 lb. loader max lift capacity on the 3R versus the 1300 lb. on the 2R tractor, nothing to do with tire type.

I average 10 - 11 loads at 5000 lb. per load, so roughly 50 - 55,000 lb. of wood per year. If a tornado or hurricane rolls thru, as one did this spring, I can easily double that number in a given year and then almost skip the following year. I keep 100,000 - 150,000 lb (green weight) of wood on-hand at all times, to have it seasoned 2 - 3 years before it gets used. Depending on where I'm harvesting, I can get multiple loads that are just one 5000 lb. log on each load, but that's rare. Most logs are 1000 - 1500 lb. I like to store them whole until I'm ready to buck and split, as it's just faster to move and store them that way, and then drag them whole to where I buck, split, and stack them. Other systems can work, but this is the one I've found most efficient for me, and I've laid out the wood storage lot, accordingly.

I'm not saying you won't want to have filled tires. Just that filled tires are just a part of the ballast equation and ballast on the 3pt is a major component.

You go through a lot of wood. What size structure are you heating?

Rob

 

[airbiscuit]

Sounds likes forks and or a rock bucket and grapple are in order. Make sure you get a 3rd function on your loader.

 

[dodge man]

I’ve never owned a 3 series but I can comment on lawn damage. I own a 2025R with loaded rear tires and mow with it using a 60” mid mount. I’m coming from a Kubota BX, similar to a 1 series JD. The 2025 doesn’t tear up the yard any more, but it does tend to rut the yard more. Part of that is mowing in the same place over and over. You can vary the mowing pattern in some places but not every where. I’d say if you are worried about lawn damage smaller might be better. On the other hand if you don’t mow with it, can stay off the lawn when it’s soft, the 3 series would be nice. I know I’ve drooled over them.

 

[WinterDeere]

You go through a lot of wood. What size structure are you heating?

Very large and very old. Roughly 8000 sq.ft. and roughly 250 years old. That amount of wood only makes up half of my total fuel consumption, by BTU value.

Sounds likes forks and or a rock bucket and grapple are in order. Make sure you get a 3rd function on your loader.

Yeah, this is another factor favoring the 3R, as the addition of a mid-PTO requires the addition of a third hydraulic function and the associated control on the SCV grip. There is a kit from Deere that easily routes that third function, which comes out behind the seat, back toward the front for use with a grapple.

Maybe the 2R has this option as well, I need to look into that. But that would also push the price of the 2R closer to what I was quoted on the 3R, as that third hydraulic channel is typically +$1k on the price of a new machine.

For now, I do well with tongs dangling from the bucket, or a choker chain to a hook welded atop my 855 bucket. This is why I will almost certainly go for the HD bucket on either machine, I would twist and destroy Deere’s current “standard” buckets in no time flat, they’re thin and weak!

I’ve never owned a 3 series but I can comment on lawn damage. I own a 2025R with loaded rear tires and mow with it using a 60” mid mount. I’m coming from a Kubota BX, similar to a 1 series JD. The 2025 doesn’t tear up the yard any more, but it does tend to rut the yard more. Part of that is mowing in the same place over and over. You can vary the mowing pattern in some places but not every where. I’d say if you are worried about lawn damage smaller might be better. On the other hand if you don’t mow with it, can stay off the lawn when it’s soft, the 3 series would be nice. I know I’ve drooled over them.

Excellent, thank you. This is exactly the type of feedback I’m hoping to get. I’m not mowing with it, but I’m traversing the yard to get from the barn to my wood lot, and from the wood lot to the house. See the aforementioned volume of wood I’m moving around. I’m also using it 6x per year to spread fertilizer across the entire lawn, 1x per year to over-seed the entire lawn, and 1x or 2x per year to aerate the lawn, and in the spring to move a lot of mulch to all of my various gardens. About 70% of my usage is on the lawn, 20% moving snow on asphalt, and 10% in the woods.

One question for you, since you own the 2R... what do you think about the location of the diff lock pedal and the MFWD lever? I can’t see how I won’t kick, mash, or break off that stupid MFWD lever, given the way it’s almost on top of the diff lock pedal. If I buy a 2R with turf tires, I’ll likely be using that diff lock quite a bit, it’s the only way I can haul my heavy wood trailer thru snow with the 855.

Two things that have me favoring the 3R for lawn use are:

1. Stability. I’m often sideways on reasonably steep grades. The 3R has more weight in the frame, and is wider in standard configuration (although I believe 2R can be spaced to almost the same width). Does Deere list their grade / rollover specs?

2. Weight. Yes, heavier can be better when I’m pushing my wagon loaded with oak under my porch, I do more lawn damage in wet slushy conditions, than any other single task. I use a 1-cord wagon load every third week, during the heating season, and my 855 has all sorts of traction problems getting this wagon pushed up a slight grade and into it’s storage location.

 

[airbiscuit]

Interesting stuff. It would be interesting to see pics of your wood moving gear, walnut trees , your 855 and your grounds.

 

[WinterDeere]

Interesting stuff. It would be interesting to see pics of your wood moving gear, walnut trees , your 855 and your grounds.

I tried to post them, but this forum rejected the photos, at least thru Tapatalk. I will try again when I’m at a real computer.