Deere reliability?

varmint · Jul 8, 2003

Before I come across as a Kubota-owning jerk, let me say that I am serious here: After enjoying the TBN for 5 or 6 months, I have formed the impression that a lot more Deere owners have posted questions/complaints about their tractors than have Kubota owners. (those are the two makes I mostly look at) I am wondering if they really are less reliable, or if there are simply more of them, and problem rates are about the same, or what's going on? Do Kubota owners suffer silently? Opinons, please.

rancar · Jul 8, 2003

I've owned my JD 4710 for slightly over a year now. I have about 67 hours on this unit. Except for a couple minor warranty problems that came up that the dealer quickly addressed free of charge, I've been very pleased with the quality and performance of the 4710. I have no regrets buying this tractor nor do I wish I looked at the orange or blue machines before I made my purchase (which I never seriously considered anyway).

This is my third JD tractor. I've owned two other smaller JD lawn tractors (JD 111 and JD 425). I ran the JD 111 for 15 years with no problems whatsoever. I sold it after I had upgraded to the 425. I have 750 hours on the 425 since owning it in 1995.....again, I've experienced no problems with the 425 lawn tractor. Overall, my experience with John Deere has been very satisfying and I will likely keep buying John Deere for the rest of my life. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

...Bob

Boondox · Jul 8, 2003

Varmint -- I was very interested in the JD 4300 when I was tractor shopping, but it was a new model and was having a share of quality issues at the time. Timing drove my choice of a Kubota L3010, but had the timing been different I would be driving green now and would have been very happy about it.

To JD's credit, they made good on all defects in that new model, and judging from the few 4x10 complaints they learned a valuable lesson about testing of new models. I'd feel very comfortable buying any of the major brands these days.

Pete

_RaT_ · Jul 8, 2003

"I have about 67 hours on this unit"

Bob, you have to use your tractor more. Your warranty will expire before it's even broken in. I've had mine for a little over a month and have more hours then that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I looked at every tractor available within a reasonable driving distance to me. That pretty much left it too JD, NH and of course, Kubota. Fortunately, I have nearby dealers that sell JD/Kubota and NH/Kubota. It was a great way to make a comparison and I highly recommend you try all brands prior to purchase. Being brand blind is in my opinion, the only way to go. According to my JD/Kubota dealer, the JD 4X00 series did have some issues with the transmissions. Hydrostatic transmission problems and manual shifting forks made out of aluminum that when forced hard enough were bending. That coupled with the 4300's aluminum cast axle housing where the aways attach, created problems for some users. I believe many of these issues have been examined and redone on the 4X10 series tractors. Other then the yellow seat, they are great little tractors. I tried the JD 4310, 4410, and 4610 all HST as well as the NH TC35D and 40D, prior to my purchase. Best of luck, Rat...

rancar · Jul 8, 2003

Bob, you have to use your tractor more. I've had mine for a little over a month and have more hours then that 

How I wish RaT....problem is other more pressing work responsibilities and continuing home renovation work keep interfering with seat time. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif But, I do squeeze in a few hours here and there when I can.

...Bob

cowboydoc · Jul 8, 2003

This has been brought up in the past. There are even a couple of posts where everyone who had any brand tractor was invited to post their results. The results were that there were no more people who posted problems with one over the other.

GreenMtnMan · Jul 8, 2003

When I was tractor shopping I spoke with a guy out here in Oregon who deals exclusively in used Kubota and JD tractors. He told me that both brands were equivalent in terms of reliability.

frankv · Jul 9, 2003

Varmint,

I've been reading everything I can here the past month in hopes of becoming more educated before I make the plunge and purchase my tractor and I've noticed the same thing.

From what I've read JD isn't selling more tractors than Kubota, but it appears more JD owners post about issues. (Kubota owners can't be sufferring silently...are they?) I've seen this kind of comment a few times..

"Except for a couple minor warranty problems that came up that the dealer quickly addressed free of charge"

What's that mean? It's ok that the tractor had issues and you where inconvenienced after dropping gobs of cash if the dealer takes care of it? My assumption is that if there is a warranty issue either dealer will resolve it, but, I don't want any issues with a $20K tractor. Am I naive?

I wanna like the green tractors. I loved the feel driving them (4110, 4115, 4210) but the electronic controls, cheap feeling control levers, and the plastic may scare me away.

Naturally the blue/green/orange tractor owners stand behind their chosen manufacturer, but being one who owns neither I am stuck in indecision.

Bob_S · Jul 9, 2003

So far so good on my 4310. Not a single problem outside of a few drops of oil on the garage floor. No drips since my 50 hour service /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. One big reason I baught JD is that I have owned a JD 185 garden tractor for over 13 years and the only thing I had to fix was a worn out drivers seat! I think you will find most all tractors will provide you with good reliably. Good luck with your purchase.

Golfgar4 · Jul 9, 2003

( My assumption is that if there is a warranty issue either dealer will resolve it, but, I don't want any issues with a $20K tractor. Am I naive?
)

I don't know if your naive or not. I know I'm in the same basic situation that you are. I haven't purchased yet, but plan to do so within the next year. I, too, have no color preference at this point. But I fully expect that there will be some minor problems with whatever I buy. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'd rather be pessimistic than thoroughly irritated. And if I experience no problems at all, which many people have, I will be very pleasantly surprised!

This is why I believe it is critical to have a relationship with a quality dealer within striking distance. I may be willing to accept that there will be minor problems, but those problems had better be remedied post haste ! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

GreenMtnMan · Jul 9, 2003

"Except for a couple minor warranty problems that came up that the dealer quickly addressed free of charge"

What's that mean? It's ok that the tractor had issues and you where inconvenienced after dropping gobs of cash if the dealer takes care of it? My assumption is that if there is a warranty issue either dealer will resolve it, but, I don't want any issues with a $20K tractor. Am I naive?


Not naive, but maybe a bit idealistic. When people spend $30-50k on a new car or truck of ANY brand they don't want to deal with warranty issues, but many do. If humans build it, it will break.

 I wanna like the green tractors. I loved the feel driving them (4110, 4115, 4210) but the electronic controls, cheap feeling control levers, and the plastic may scare me away.

I didn't notice much difference in the feel of the controls in JD, Kubota, or NH. In fact, the cheapest looking thing I remember seeing when shopping all the major brands was the flimsy plastic clamshell housing around the instrument panel on the Kubota L3430, but really how important is that housing to reliability? Metal vs. Plastic body panels are a personal preference, they both have their tradeoffs - for my money I didn't care one way or the other. If you gotta have metal you know what to buy.

I was very worried about the electronic controls but the reality is all manufacturers are heading in this direction. You can stand on top of the world and yell "STOP" but nobody will listen. And there are advantages - the JD LoadMatch feature is wonderful for loader work.

5string · Jul 9, 2003

Reliability (mean time between failure) is certainly a important measure / consideration when purchasing a machine that integrates many different parts and costs alot of money. As someone stated previously, if humans build it something will fail prior to its intended useful life. Since we can assume something will fail, perhaps a equal if not more important consideration is how quickly the manufacturer identifies the problem, incorporates a fix back into production and provides a remedy for current owners. after reading this forum for quite some time, it appears to me that Kubota surpasses Deere in this area. The Japanese take alot of ownership in their products; particularly the ones that are exported to the U.S. Japanese cars are more reliable not because the initial design was superior, but because they actively monitor the in-service reliability and customer satisfaction. American manufacturers (Deere) appear to be more reactive. They seem to wait and see how big of an issue it is going to be prior to considering a fix. Some of this is cultural, but Deere and Kubota have completely different manufacturing philosophies. The Kubota has a Kubota engine, Kubota tranny and is assembled in a Kubota factory. The major components of a Deere are a collection of various manufactures components that are shipped to a factory for final assembly. This process is less conducive to proactively "tweaking" the assembly line. Also, when a issue is discovered a sometimes lengthy negotiation between the name manufacturer and the supplier (was the part built to spec. or not and cost sharing) can delay a response to the end user.

GreenMtnMan · Jul 9, 2003

5String, what you are describing is the manufacturers response to design defects. I don't know if Deere or Kubota responds faster to design defects, but I would wager that the great majority of repairs are due to component failures or misuse and not design defects. For component failures the dealer response and parts network are far more important to me as an owner. The dealer response varies from dealer to dealer - in my case the local Kubota dealer is absolutely, terribly awful and the Deere dealer is top notch. In the case of parts availability I believe Deere is unsurpassed.

cowboydoc · Jul 9, 2003

Since we can assume something will fail, perhaps a equal if not more important consideration is how quickly the manufacturer identifies the problem, incorporates a fix back into production and provides a remedy for current owners. after reading this forum for quite some time, it appears to me that Kubota surpasses Deere in this area

Don't tell that to my neighbor. He bought a Kubota bi-steer that they never fixed and refused to buy back. They even admitted to him that they had a # of machines with that problem but Kubota didn't know how to fix it. They kept putting him off until he was out of warranty. He has tryed to trade it numerous times but because of that issue he can't get much for it. Not saying Kubota isn't good but they all have their issues.

5string · Jul 9, 2003

GreenMtnMan, I cannot disagree with you that the majority of failures are due to component failures or alleged misuse. However, the whole point of reliability is to determine if the failure is a single event or if a trend is developing that may require change. A design tweak may be as simple as specifying a different temper or increasing a radius. It is just my opinion that the more suppliers that are involved in producing a product the more complex that process becomes. I whole heartedly agree that good dealer support is important. My point is that I do not want to experience a dealers great support regarding a problem on a new tractor that I read about a year ago. Any machine that has earned a quality reputation has evolved over time.

I hesitated in contributing to this post becuse I new some would be hypersensitive to any negative observation with regard to Deere. It is for that reason that I did not use specific product examples (Deere or Kubota). I will continue to refrain from doing so.

yellowsocks93 · Jul 9, 2003

I am glad to hear that some or you guys out there hate the plastic fenders and all the plastic on the new deeres. I wish john deere would change back to a style like the 70 series compacts. I have owned a 970 since 1991 and have had no problems with it. I love it. Thats why I have a 990 ordered. I think deeres are reliable and JD does have the best parts department. When I first got my 4300 I loved it but now things on it seem so cheap. I think all the people who have the 4000 TEN series will grow to hate all the plastic on there tractors. Tractors are made to be tough and all metal like they used to be. Just my 2 cents! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Nick
990 4x4 turf, 272 RFM, 430 FEL, 25A flail

Hambone · Jul 9, 2003

Yep, take away the plastic from the Tractors, Take it away from the cars too. Take off all the electronics, Lets just use all the earths resources. No more recycling. What a way too go. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

TerryinMD · Jul 9, 2003

Ahh... don't get all wrapped around the axle about the use of plastic.

It is pretty tough stuff and is prevalent (sp) everywhere today. Cars, trucks, tractors, you name it.

The saving grace is that it is durable and easy to replace.

As long as the tractor has the power and functionality to get the job done, what difference does it make if it's plastic or not. If the components are engineered correctly (key words here), the machine will stand the test of time. Yep, things will break, but all of it is fixable. Well, except for that poor soul who bought the Kubota that couldn't be fixed - Now I would be extremely angry and looking for a good lawyer.

Heck, look at a B2 bomber. Bascially made of resins and carbon. My guess is that the stuff is basically plastic too.

As pointed out earlier, the key to being happy with your tractor purchase is finding the right dealer.

Terry

GreenMtnMan · Jul 9, 2003

5String, sorry if I came across as hypersensitive. I'm really not trying to be. If our local Kubota dealer was decent I may well have bought a L3430 instead of a JD 4310 - it's kind of a tossup IMHO.

You make a good point about manufacturers tracking failures. Since warranty claims cost them money I would think that any responsible manufacturer would keep an eye on premature failures and use that info to improve their product. I don't know how Deere compares to Kubota in this regard. If history is any guide, I have heard that the older 4x00 series Deere's had a fair amount of tranny problems and that Deere stood behind the product and made it right.

As far as the original posters question, I heard on the news today that Lexus led the automotive pack in long term reliability - and that they had something like 163 problems per 100 vehicle. That's more than one problem per vehicle and they were the BEST. So I wouldn't get bent out of shape with one or two warranty issues on any brand of CUT.

varmint · Jul 9, 2003

I've been reading the results of my original question with interest, can't say anything new has appeared, but then... As for Deere parts being readily available, Kubota is pretty good, too. If the dealer doesn't have it, Kubota will Fedex anything from a seal to a fender for a flat $5 charge, directly to you. I haven't had to use the service, but this is what I've been told.