Diesel P/U Longevity

NewToy · Apr 12, 2006

Just wanted to get an idea of the kind of mileage you can expect out of a diesel pickup truck before it gives up the ghost. I have a 99' F250 with the 7.3 Powerstroke. I currently have 157,000 miles and it runs great. I have the 6 speed manual transmission since I pull a heavy trailer in my business and figured the manual would be less problems down the road. I have changed the oil every 3k miles unless I haven't been pulling the trailer then I'll go 4k between changes. I keep up with the fuel & oil filters as well and keep the coolant additive in spec. I'd like to hear from all diesel owners, not just Ford as I'm in the market for a new truck and don't suffer from brand loyalty blindness.Everyone I know that has the new 6 liter Powerstroke has had problems with having to get the "brain" reprogrammed. I wonder if this issue has been sorted out?
Thanks,
John

RobertN · Apr 12, 2006

My limited expierience...

'89 Ford F250 4x4 xcab long bed 4x4. 351ci fuel injected v8, manual tranny. I sold it at a little over 225,000 miles. Ran like a toip, didn't use oil ect. Only work that I know of to the engine was a water pump, and an electrical part in the distributor. I know it is not diesel, but... That truck had plenty of mileage left to go, with proper care.

My Dodge, '01 Ram2500 4x4 xcab Cummins/auto has about 83,000 on it. No problems /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

My Dad has worked for Dodge as a mechanics/shop counter parts guy since the 1960's. A couple years ago, they had a couple guys come in with 500,000 and 750,000 miles on thier trucks(Cummins/Ram)(98 and '99 I think...). No major work besides regular consumables(brakes, fluids, tires ect).

The key to some of the real high mileage rigs is running them, not cycling them. If you start, stop, start, stop, heat-up, cool-down any engine, the life will be shorter; most wear occurs on a cold engine when the oil is at the bottom of the pan...

HGM · Apr 12, 2006

As a rule, and some might disagree, a diesel engine thats well taken care of can run seemingly forever.. What I mean by that, everything run through it should be lubricated(fuel, oil, and coolant), along with clean air(dont fall for those "2 letter" air filters) the engine should not wear much at all.. I have seen 300k 7.3's that still show the crosshatch on the cylinder walls.. I know of a 6.0L that already has 500+k miles on it.. I have heard of 600+k mi 7.3's from techs.. If its taken care of , your truck is just broken in, you'll have issues with bushings and springs long before the engine fails..

As for the 6.0L, there have been some programing issues, each year has its own.. Its a small inconvenience to make it run right.. Remember when you talk to people about their P/S that with somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000 diesel trucks produced in a given year(by Ford alone) your bound to find someone that has had trouble.. I would immagine your 7.3 to last into the next generation anyhow...

Dargo · Apr 12, 2006

I really have no "bad" news for you. I've been in the industry to have access to literally hundreds of thousands of breakdown claims. I do NOT take my advice from any publication that may have a lot of advertising dollars hinging on whether the next write up for their truck will be favorable or not. Also, I've seen "great" mechanics who make their entire living fixing vehicles who had absolutely no clue as to the actual comparative analysis between similar vehicles that include important factors which not only include frequency of repairs, but many other variables such as severity as well. Basically, what I'm saying is that I do have lots of friends in the business, but I make my decisions on rating and rates on actual facts on actual repairs. I deal in pure facts. Emotions have no place in what I do.

First, on your '99 PowerStroke. Keep it!! If what you tell me is correct and you do maintain your vehicle as you say, you're not half way to statistically having expensive repairs appear with any frequency. Your take on the transmission is also correct. You can get an automatic transmission for a Ford, Dodge, or GM that will hold up over the long haul even when hauling heavy loads, but that will cost you (with labor) over $8,000.

The 6.0 liter replacement for the venerable old 7.3 has already been phased out. As to not upset anyone, I'll just say that Ford agrees with the actuarial data that says the engine is not a winner. I think the slated replacement for '07 will be a 6.6 or 6.7. I obviously have no data on them.

Although I personally own a Dodge truck, I prefer the Ford truck (other than the power train) better. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Not that it will ever matter for most people, it will not be uncommon to see 300k to 600k on your 7.3 PowerStroke. You can about double that for the Cummins. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Also, in every diesel drag race bracket and every truck pull bracket, the Cummins is the world record holder. Bluntly, more power and more reliability if you can take the box around the powerplant.

The GM offerings is a tough issue for me. Most all of my relatives are die hard GM fans. The 6.2 diesels were terrible. The 6.5 were not much better. The "savior", the Isuzu Duramax has had more than it's share of issues as well as the stock Allison "bulletproof" transmission. But, GM seems to have the strongest following and they are also addressing their short comings in the diesel area. They better, Toyota is close to bringing out a 1 ton diesel here in the U.S.

The bottom line: what do you like? If you like your Ford, stick with it another couple hundred thousand miles while you figure out your next move. If you can take the truck (and I've gotten used to mine) and want what is simply the longest lasting and strongest pickup diesel engine, go with a Dodge. If you don't mine shifting gears, go with a stick. If you go with an automatic, just figure on dropping about $8000 after you run out of warranty and you'll be done for life there. I've lit up all 4 rear tires on my Dodge and have about melted them off of the rims on several occasions with no ill issues with my expensive aftermarket tranny.

If you want to fight the brand wars with others, feel free. I go by stats only. I assure you, otherwise, I would not drive a Dodge over a Ford. Besides that, I can run in the high 13's in the quarter mile with my 4X4 dually with a 4" lift kit that weighs 8000 pounds. That does have a certain fun factor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

NewToy · Apr 12, 2006

I was leaning toward a Dodge for a replacement but I was concerned about the transmissions. I have talked to folks that have had problems with the manual 5 speeds and the auto is out of the question. I understand that they have a 6 speed manual now, how are they holding up? Have they got their auto trans beefed up? I know they were somewhat problematic when used for heavy towing. Also, what type of auto did you put in yours Dargo? It sounds like it will do the trick but the 8k price tag is a stickler.
Thanks,

John

VA_Joe · Apr 12, 2006

Unless you drive a lot of miles per year (or are abusive) - the chassis will likely wear out (or you'll want a new truck) long before the engine (whether it be gas or diesel).

The real reason for buying diesel is the incredible low end torque that makes driving an absolute pleasure (power on demand)

My two cents.

Joe

_RaT_ · Apr 12, 2006

Robert, whats a toip? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Is that like English for top O the mornin?

HGM · Apr 12, 2006

( I really have no "bad" news for you. I've been in the industry to have access to literally hundreds of thousands of breakdown claims. I do NOT take my advice from any publication that may have a lot of advertising dollars hinging on whether the next write up for their truck will be favorable or not. Also, I've seen "great" mechanics who make their entire living fixing vehicles who had absolutely no clue as to the actual comparative analysis between similar vehicles that include important factors which not only include frequency of repairs, but many other variables such as severity as well. Basically, what I'm saying is that I do have lots of friends in the business, but I make my decisions on rating and rates on actual facts on actual repairs. I deal in pure facts. Emotions have no place in what I do.

First, on your '99 PowerStroke. Keep it!! If what you tell me is correct and you do maintain your vehicle as you say, you're not half way to statistically having expensive repairs appear with any frequency. Your take on the transmission is also correct. You can get an automatic transmission for a Ford, Dodge, or GM that will hold up over the long haul even when hauling heavy loads, but that will cost you (with labor) over $8,000.

The 6.0 liter replacement for the venerable old 7.3 has already been phased out. As to not upset anyone, I'll just say that Ford agrees with the actuarial data that says the engine is not a winner. I think the slated replacement for '07 will be a 6.6 or 6.7. I obviously have no data on them.

Although I personally own a Dodge truck, I prefer the Ford truck (other than the power train) better. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Not that it will ever matter for most people, it will not be uncommon to see 300k to 600k on your 7.3 PowerStroke. You can about double that for the Cummins. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Also, in every diesel drag race bracket and every truck pull bracket, the Cummins is the world record holder. Bluntly, more power and more reliability if you can take the box around the powerplant.

The GM offerings is a tough issue for me. Most all of my relatives are die hard GM fans. The 6.2 diesels were terrible. The 6.5 were not much better. The "savior", the Isuzu Duramax has had more than it's share of issues as well as the stock Allison "bulletproof" transmission. But, GM seems to have the strongest following and they are also addressing their short comings in the diesel area. They better, Toyota is close to bringing out a 1 ton diesel here in the U.S.

The bottom line: what do you like? If you like your Ford, stick with it another couple hundred thousand miles while you figure out your next move. If you can take the truck (and I've gotten used to mine) and want what is simply the longest lasting and strongest pickup diesel engine, go with a Dodge. If you don't mine shifting gears, go with a stick. If you go with an automatic, just figure on dropping about $8000 after you run out of warranty and you'll be done for life there. I've lit up all 4 rear tires on my Dodge and have about melted them off of the rims on several occasions with no ill issues with my expensive aftermarket tranny.

If you want to fight the brand wars with others, feel free. I go by stats only. I assure you, otherwise, I would not drive a Dodge over a Ford. Besides that, I can run in the high 13's in the quarter mile with my 4X4 dually with a 4" lift kit that weighs 8000 pounds. That does have a certain fun factor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif )

Just to add a little......

The new Ford engine will be a 6.4L Navistar with common rail injection through peizo injectors..

Dodge is also releasing its replacement diesel next year(last I heard) for their sake, I hope its as bulletproof as this generation..

Both are due to the stringent '07 emissions.. The current engines will not pass... We'll get another set of new engines(or modified versions) in '10...

BTW, about the trans.... I prefer the auto, but I wouldnt race the truck /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifso the $8k version would be overkill to me.. With a temp gauge and extra cooler on it, maybe even a shift improver along with regular maint I like my chances with the Ford auto, especially the TqShift(I've ridden in a 4x4 with 450hp and if I remember correctly about 900lb of tq, talk about impressive, it aint broke yet).. I have no experience with the Dodge auto, but I havent heard any good about the stock box /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif...

ScottAR · Apr 13, 2006

You forgot the twin sequential turbos on the 6.4... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I figure my 99 F350 PSD stick to last and last... The only reason I might upgrade would be to a dually flatbed. Just change the oil regular and keep the air filter clean...

I also run a 3qt oil filter... can't hurt.

RobertN · Apr 13, 2006

Toip is a slang for something superduperthingamajigcool. It certianly couldn't have been a fault of my incredible spelling abilities /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RobertN · Apr 13, 2006

I like most of what you say about this kinda stuff. I though, have found my Dodge to be a pretty good truck. It is similar fit and trim to my previous Fords, except the Fords were gas engine.

I still really like Ford trucks, and wouldn't hesitate to get another. But, I really like my Dodge a lot too. I personally, have not found anything in the newer Fords that would make me go running to them, even if they offered a Cummins(wouldn't turn one down though).

The GM is probably an OK setup. But, I like and use 4x4. Nothing can beat a solid front axle off-road and in the mucky stuff. I have had them before; there is not enough ground clearance or suspension travel.

As regards longevity, as others mention, most trucks will rot around the engine before there is any engine failure. As I mentioned in a previous message, this is espially true for folks that do a lot of over the road mileage. It's that start/stop, heat/cool cycles that will wear an engine.

FWIW, my other favorite truck is an Engine; E28. It's a Ferrara build with a 350hp Cummins and an Allison tranny. That big Cummins sounds so cool! And, it moves that fire engine around no problem

HGM · Apr 13, 2006

( You forgot the twin sequential turbos on the 6.4... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I figure my 99 F350 PSD stick to last and last... The only reason I might upgrade would be to a dually flatbed. Just change the oil regular and keep the air filter clean...

I also run a 3qt oil filter... can't hurt. )

Yea, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif forgot that.... They try to avoid the term twin, but it is sequential.. Basicly, its a little turbo for low end power, feeding a larger variable displacement turbo.. This way they avoid the dreaded turbo lag.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There is a replacement air filter for your truck available at the dealer.. Its awsome, made by Donnalson(for Motorcraft) and similar to the 6.0L filter. Much better quality and protection than anything else on the market(that I know of)..

Thanks for the reminder, I've been more consumed by the emissions, fuel system and serviceablility of the 6.4L, but the turbo is neat /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif..

Farmwithjunk · Apr 13, 2006

For years and years, ALL I'd own were Chevy's. Last one was a '98 model. (Gasser/automatic) That broke me of a bad habit. The boys at the Chevy truck plant musta had a big laugh when they shoved that P.O.S. out the door. (List of problem areas...Brakes, cooling system, fuel injection system, drive shaft, front axle (4WD), steering, radio, paint, electrical system (lighting), power window motors, Need I go further?

No more Chevy's in MY driveway, gas OR diesel.

I've owned a few Fords. LAst one was an F-350, 2000 vintage, Powerjoke Diesel, manual tranny, and at least 2000 rattles. Poorest built truck since my former Chevy.

Now I own a 2004 Dodge 2500, 4WD, 4-door, diesel/auto. LOVE IT! I heard all the horror stories about Dodge trucks. Can't verify any of them by me. 76,000 HARD miles, and the ONLY trouble so far has been a brake light bulb that burnt out. I tow a 14,000GVWR gooseneck. It's usually loaded to a weight around 9,000lbs (trailer and cargo) The Cummins diesel is the heart of the truck. It's reputation is untouchable. The rest of the truck has been (at the very LEAST) as good as anything, and a lot better than most of the trucks I've owned to this point. (At last count, that's been over 30 pick-em-ups during my driving "career".) I wouldn't hesitate one second to buy (or recommend) another Dodge to anyone.

I'm on my 3rd diesel truck. (Both PowerJokes before current Dodge/Cummins) I'd tell anyone who's using a pick-up as a "car" to skip the diesel. Short drives, lots of stop-and-go in town driving, and cold starts are the downfall of a diesel. A gasser would last just as long, cost less initially, and CAN BE cheaper to operate. Diesels are as much a fad as they are practical.

I know of several cases where someone will run a diesel pick-up to well over 500,000 miles. Even if that's highway milage, it finally takes a tole on the CHASSIS. Even if the motor should "run forever", the truck under it wears out just the same, gas or diesel. (I'm one of those "100,000 miles and out" kind of truck owners myself)

Like I mentioned, I tow a trailer with an automatic/diesel combo. My brother, my son, and 2 good friends do likewise. We've not had any troubles (collectively) with automatics in what totals several 100,000's of miles. We live in hilly country, use the trucks as WORK trucks, and keep up on maint.

Now whatta you wanna bet, while I'm sitting here bragging on my Dodge, something isn't falling off of it while it sits outside in the parking lot?

dmccarty · Apr 13, 2006

( Now whatta you wanna bet, while I'm sitting here bragging on my Dodge, something isn't falling off of it while it sits outside in the parking lot? )

CLANG! CRUNCH!

WOW! I heard the tranny falling to the ground all the way in NC!

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Later,
Dan

jinman · Apr 13, 2006

NewToy, I'd keep your diesel until it puked. It'll probably be something other than the engine that will make you get rid of the truck. My Cummins has been pulling my Dodge around for just over 322,000 without ever so much as having the valve covers off. I'm on my third set of "lifetime" shocks and 6th set of brakes (front brakes). Last year I thought my transmission was dying, but I disconnected the battery overnight to reboot the PCM and the darn thing has been running perfectly ever since. I love to tell folks how I've spent more in fuel and oil changes than the truck cost me new. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There's nothing that will help get your finances in great shape like not having a vehicle payment for over seven years. That's been the case on my last three vehicles. They were all over 10 years old when I sold them./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

NewToy · Apr 13, 2006

jinman, I have been without a payment book for quite a while as well and it is a good feeling. I am very encouraged with the fellow posters comments and don't plan on getting rid of old faithful. It has served me well and it is still in good shape. It has been one of my smarter purchases so I believe I'll run the wheels off of it.
Thanks,
John

jcmseven · Apr 13, 2006

I went through this mental turmoil about three months ago. The folks here gave me good opinions, and I hope that I can pass that on also. I own a 2002 Power Stroke with the full-on Banks System, including the new variable prgrammer. I have far fewer miles on my truck than you, but I know several dealers and services guys that would kill to KEEP a truck like yours. Next year Ford will be releasing the new 6.4L diesel in the 3/4 tons, and it promises to be a good powerplant. This is essentially Navistar's last chance. I drove everything out there (twice) and thought and thought about whether to trade, and I did not. In the end the truck I owned ran better, was faster (by a lot) and was smoother than anything out there. I even called the Banks' guys to get their thoughts and they said do NOT trade. I think the same applies for you. My neighbor pulls pallets cross country with his trucks (three). He has two 7.3L and one 6.0L. He is trading the 6.0L due to its constant maintenence issues. He just turned 650,000 with one of his Power Strokes. I feel the Cummins engine is a solid powerplant and modified it runs well, as Dargo says. It probably gets a little better mileage on average too than the Ford. With any heavier duty pickup, one to me must focus not on the engine so much as the frame and chassis. Go to you nearest dealer in some ratty clothes, crawl on the ground and look at the big three offerings. I think you will quickly see a difference in the size and thickness of the framerails and the suspension, etc. I will allow you to decide which one looks the beefiest. In short, I feel your truck has a lot more life in it, and I would keep it. If you feel the need to trade (as I thought I did a few months ago) go with the truck that has the beefiest components first, as all the engines have reasonable quality--but probably not better than what you currently own. I think you are wise to continue to keep your existing truck.

John M

scott_vt · Apr 14, 2006

( jinman, I have been without a payment book for quite a while as well and it is a good feeling. )

Well stated, oh yes a very good feeling /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

scotty

ScottAR · Apr 14, 2006

Hmmm, all the aftermarket sequential setups I've seen the big turbo feeds the little turbo for more pressure... Lest the little turbo becomes an intake restriction... Maybe I reading incorrectly...

HGM · Apr 14, 2006

( Hmmm, all the aftermarket sequential setups I've seen the big turbo feeds the little turbo for more pressure... Lest the little turbo becomes an intake restriction... Maybe I reading incorrectly... )

I havent had the oportunity to completely disect the 6.4 turbo system, but I use the 4.5L as a reference.. There is a wastegate type valve between the turbo's. You are correct, I worded it wrong earlier.. The larger turbo is bypassed at lower RPM's and the valve will close as RPM increases.. The larger turbo will then continue supplying boost from there, through the little one..