Diesel Refining, prices going UP

[LeadPoison]

Try the whole country!

Here in Southeast LA we make a large percentage of the country's fuel. Somehow the same fuel is cheaper hundreds of miles away. Go figure!

 

[cp1969]

I used to see that a lot...pick up a load of gas, haul it 60 miles, and notice that the price was cheaper than a station five miles away from the terminal.

There is no rhyme or reason to fuel pricing when you let firms like Quick Trip set the price. As far as I know, QT never drilled one hole or refined one gallon, yet they set the price in the metro area closest to where I live.

 

[SnowRidge]

<font color="blue"> If gas is harder to refine that Diesel, why is it that in our area diesel costs more than gas? </font>

The same reason it's higher most places, relative supply and demand, driven to some degree by these points:

1. European refineries have excess gasoline since their diesel demand is much higher by percent of refining capacity than ours. The excess gets shipped here, which helps to hold down gas prices on this side of the pond (I know, I know, they don't seem held down).

2. Diesel competes with home heating oil for refinery capacity. It's winter, and every winter diesel goes up.

3. A large percentage of gasoline consumption is by individuals, many of whom can modify their behavior to burn less off the stuff (carpool, fewer trips to the store, buy a smaller car, etc.), while most diesel consumption is by businesses who have no easy way to reduce their consumption. Trucks still have to make deliveries and heavy equipment still has to move dirt, farmers gotta farm, etc. In other words, price rises for gasoline have a greater tendency to reduce demand than do prices rises for diesel.

4. And of course, my new diesel truck. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[SkyPup]

Your right, throughout North America diesel fuel is just a waste product of gasoline production whilst in Europe it is the other way around.

It will be real nice when the diesel fuel quality here matches the quality of the gasoline! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[theboman]

What is WRONG is I live 10 miles from a HUGE Marathon refinery where most the fuels in this area comes from, others buy the fuel from Marathon and add their addatives, or whatever.... Anyway, the if fuel prices are 2.39 a gallon here, 20 miles away it's 2.35 a gallon, 75 miles away 2.29 a gallon and it comes from this refinery!

I don't know what others call it I call it illegal and price gouging.

 

[kyspartan]

how do you all think Exxon mobile reported the biggest profit ever in U.S. history for any company. two words, price gouging,

 

[RalphVa]

When I worked for Exxon, they were barely making a profit on gasoline and often sold it at a loss. ExxonMobil aren't making record profits by selling gasoline and diesel. They're making their profits on what they call the "up stream" end of the business. This is the end where they get the crude out of the ground. The high price of crude has resulted in more profits.

ExxonMobil are doing a little bit better than the average oil company, but they're not doing better than many other businesses, like insurance for instance.

They're doing well because they're a very well-run and honest outfit. The Exxon folks were, and we worked in licensing with some Mobil folks before the merger. They're good people, too.

Blame the Chinese for upping the demand for crude oil that's raised prices for everyone. Blame anyone who drives a vehicle that doesn't get the car CAFE fuel mileage. If 200 million vehicles got car CAFE mileage instead of the 18 mpg that typical SUVs get, we could shut down 6 large refineries, at least the parts that convert 20-30% of the middle and bottom of the barrel to those c6-c10 molecules in gasoline.

Someone asked about the high price of diesel. That's because diesel is taxed more than gasoline. Congress decided to gouge the truckers when they wanted more money a few years ago.

It's generally the reverse in Europe, with diesel far cheaper than gasoline, all because of taxation. Many countries tax diesel car buyers a big amount when they purchase a diesel car though. Diesel car people are about 40+% in Europe vs. about 2% here.

Ralph

 

[kyspartan]

i always heard the oil company's say, that they sell their gas at a loss, but i never believed that. why would they sell gas if it cost them money? the oil company's profits soared when the price of fuels went up. that's just a little bit too much of coincidence

as far fuel economy goes the less gas sold the higher the price will be. and as far as suv and trucks go people need to start looking at these kind of vehicles http://www.gm.com/automotive/innovations/altfuel/vehicles/pickup/e85/
these trucks are as green or greener than their hybrid counterparts

why is tax free farm diesel higher than gasoline in my area?

 

[SkyPup]

Nice post Ralph!

Our turbodiesel VW TDI's have been getting 50 miles per gallon for the last 8 years now, and the motorcycles all have been getting over 60 mpg ever since the Arab Oil embargo back in the early 70's! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[RalphVa]

Trucks will get even less fuel mileage from ethanol than from gasoline. I've read that you have to put more energy into refining ethanol from corn than you get out of it. Not a good idea, without A LOT more research to cut down on the manufacturing energy needed.

I don't see why folks like big trucks. You can't load them from the side, unless you're 7-8' tall, and you need a step ladder to get up into the tailgate to load and unload from the back. Women generally need running boards to get in and out of the things. My wife hated my Ford Ranger (bought when we came back from Singapore in 1994 because it was the top-rated small truck in 1994, BEFORE the Tacomas were introduced in 1995). It was 2 wd drive but too high up because Ford makes them all 4wd height.

If you need to haul lots of bulk, you're generally ahead with a small truck because your hauling will generally be a very small amount of your total miles, and you can make 2 trips in a small truck vs. one in a big truck and use about the same amount of fuel, e.g. 27 mpg in my Tacoma vs. 15 mpg in a big Chevy truck (gas, 18 mpg in a diesel). Our Tacoma is our most-used vehicle. (The Ranger only got 25 mpg, and LESS on the highway. The Tacoma will do 30 mpg with its hemi-head engine on the highway at 85 mph. These mileages are with a tonneau cover; they'll be about 2 mpg less without.)

My BIL just bought a Nissan Titan. My sister had to yell at him when he was backing into their garage. IT WON'T FIT: too high.

My most favorite truck was a Dodge Rampage. It drove like a sports car, got 28 mpg (on a carbureted engine, which would be close to 35 mpg with fuel injection), hauled near as much as the Ranger or Tacoma and held 6 grocery bags of groceries behind the seats (vs. NONE for the Ranger). FrtWD small trucks are the way to go, preferably with 2 liter diesel engines like the ones on the BMW A series that put out 160 hp.

Ralph