Diesel vs gas

[ovrszd]

Yes they will, but I'd hate to try and stop that load on a hill with that old girl
That being said, we still use several gas tractors for farm work, Farmall 400, 560 and 656's for light work.
All the newer units are diesel.
This discussion (piss ant argument ) about gas vs diesel has had so much bull slung around it's ridiculous.
Diesel has more BTU per gallon, other aspects of engines being equal it will take less fuel then gas.
I've heard so many ridiculous claims in the discussion,
the cam(s) or valve timing (electronic) is what affects the engines power curve, it does not matter if it's gas or diesel.
With forced induction and new electronic controls both engines can make unbelievable hp and torque.
As an example a little 3.0 liter (183 cu.in.) diesel with 240 hp and 420 #'s of torque at 2000 rpm.

For lighter work I would like to see a modern 50-60 hp @ 2000 rpm gas tractor with a good flat torque curve and a base weight of 5000-6000 lbs,
and a diesel with the same Hp and torque and weight, it would be an interesting (at least to me) comparison.

And for those that want or claim that higher rpm is as good or better then low, no.

Good stuff Lou.

Isn't Ford's little gasser V8 they use in the F150 a 2
7L that build incredible numbers?

For how long we'll see.

 

[aczlan]

Good stuff Lou.

Isn't Ford's little gasser V8 they use in the F150 a 2
7L that build incredible numbers?

For how long we'll see.

IIRC, Ford's 2.7L is a V6, not a V8.

Aaron Z

 

[ovrszd]

IIRC, Ford's 2.7L is a V6, not a V8.

Aaron Z

Ooppss, sorry Aaron, thanks for the catch!!!

 

[buickanddeere]

OK I now better understand your objective in your OP.

Gas options are typically older stuff like you mentioned.

Our 1976 MF 265 diesel was bought new by the wife's father and is a nice low hour (1400) 60 HP tractor.

I grew up on gas 801 Fords so late last summer I looked at some 3000 Fords. I was fine with gas. I looked at one gas and one diesel both would start and run but nothing to get excited about taking home. The next week a 1966 3000 Ford diesel popped up nearby on CL that ran and looked very nice and apples to apples was the better value so we got it and now it has the 711 Ford one arm loader on it. Very early this spring I looked at a 3600 diesel and a couple weeks later a 2600 gas tractor that I pulled a trailer 300 miles to buy. The guy finally got it started but the old carb issues came flooding back into my old head from years ago plus it looked much better in the photos. The 3600 diesel was just 15 miles away from this 2600 and I had the trailer so I drove over to the place with the 3600 diesel because it would start and run very nicely plus it had a strong lift that could hold up a 5 foot bush hog for a few hours after you shut it off. The guy still had it so he loaded it and I headed back to KY. I notice Friday the 3600 is at 2400 actual hours (I was told and appears to be factual) so I have put 100 hours on it this summer somehow I guess pulling the 7' twin spindle Bush Hog brand bush hog. In heavy stuff it will show some dark smoke when the governor opens up but has not used any oil. The owner of the last 32 years knew the owner who bought it new and he claims the engine has not been touched other than to change the oil and filter every 100 hours and mainly it cut and raked hay he said.

I was very open to an old gas Ford but in the real world of old tractors my brain had to go with diesels for the reasons noted. I have not seen any new gas tractors in years.

In a practical sense there are mainly only diesel tractor options today. I am sure a 3000 Ford gas or diesel will do about the same amount of work but the life of a gas engine just does not compare with the diesel version 50 years down the road from what I can tell.

While the 3600 has set outside all of its life and needs painting and some other stuff to make it look sharp it is turning out to be a real work horse as is and the price was $3500 picked up at its home of 32 years.

If I had a family gas tractor I would restore it I am sure.

Why would manufactures build gas tractors when diesel was here and still is 2/3 to 3/4 of the price of gasoline per gallon outside of the west . Same reason why some diesels are currently being used in some applications better suited to gasoline. In most of the world diesel is much cheaper than gasoline.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Why would manufacture build gas tractors when diesel was 2/3 to 3/4 of the price of gasoline per gallon .

Prob price of the tractor was cheaper.

 

[ovrszd]

Prob price of the tractor was cheaper.

He knows that.

Why are some cars red?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The funny thing is both are going to be replaced by battery powered tractors like the cars and semi trucks.

 

[4570Man]

The funny thing is both are going to be replaced by battery powered tractors like the cars and semi trucks.

Not any time soon.

 

[searcyfarms]

I say we go back to kerosene, it was the cheapest thing ever back in the day and less polluting..........I still have a tractor that will burn it - shoot its all our ancestors had and used for tractors/heating/lighting/cooking etc.............where did that go wrong?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Anything diesel will run on Kerosene, even today...

SR

 

[searcyfarms]

yes but its gotten so expensive, no wonder it costs so much to fly with that jet fuel, my buddy gets jet fuel from the local law enforcement folks as if they don't use it all in a certain amount of time they have to get rid of it, I think they have regulations around shelf life or something and he mixes it with his diesel in his tractors - has been for years

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Not any time soon.

This is the Fendt e1 Vario electric tractor - FutureFarming

Ahead of the Curve: Electric Drive Tractor Coming to U.S. & Canada | 218-4-7 | Farm Equipment Publication

John Deere's electric tractor in action - YouTube
A big JD electric tractor at the end.

The Electric Kubota BX235 - YouTube
The Electric Kubota BX2350

Solar Electric Tractor Model 12 - Steve Heckeroth - YouTube
Solar Electric Tractor Model 12 - Steve Heckeroth

 

[4570Man]

I don’t recall seeing very many power plugs in the field. Seeing that Kubota hurts a little. Couldn’t they have at least used a blown up unit? Maybe that motor went back to good use.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I don’t recall seeing very many power plugs in the field.

Why would you expect to see them in the field? These tractors take their power to the field with them. The diesel electric tractor makes a lot of sense as you may have read. The flexibility of electric powered farm tools will offer a lot of flexibility.

 

[vvanders]

Honestly I've wondered why we haven't seen any diesel-electric tractors. You'd have much better speed control compared to an HST without the loss of power to the PTO vs geared tractor. If you had a smaller reserve battery you could run it quiet for puttering around and kick in the diesel gen for when you needed the power.

Most electric motors are teeny so it's not like it would take a ton of extra space.

 

[MossRoad]

Honestly I've wondered why we haven't seen any diesel-electric tractors. You'd have much better speed control compared to an HST without the loss of power to the PTO vs geared tractor. If you had a smaller reserve battery you could run it quiet for puttering around and kick in the diesel gen for when you needed the power.

Most electric motors are teeny so it's not like it would take a ton of extra space.

Probably because they are overly-complicated and the cost increase would be increadible. Also have to ask about the efficiency. Trains are efficient when they run at constant speed. Most people on TBN don't run at constant speed with their homeowner machines. Very few of us are high acreage dirt farmers that plow long furrows all day long.

 

[vvanders]

I totally buy the complicated argument but I don't know about cost or efficiency.

For one AC induction motors are pretty cheap to build, they're mostly just copper and the control ICs have been plummeting in prices. The huge cost in EVs come from the batteries which you'd be omitting from a diesel-electric. You also get to drop the transmission/hst costs(and even transfer case if you want to get fancy with a dual motor setup).

On efficiency that's actually one of the strengths of a diesel-electric, you can run the gen motor at a constant RPM that's at peak efficiency and then the Rotation->AC->DC->AC->Motor decouples the speeds. Right now AC motors are about ~92-95% efficient with the AC->DC being about 95% efficient you're probably somewhere in the ~10% loss ballpark which is still better than the 15-20% you pay for a HST.

The other thing that makes AC induction motors awesome is that they have the best possible traction of any motor(which is why trains use them). When the wheels break traction they don't overspin, they stay at ~1% of previous speed thanks to how the VFD controls the 3-phase timings.

Anyway, I've take us far off-topic, probably worth a separate thread rather than clutter up this one.

 

[ovrszd]

Why would you expect to see them in the field? These tractors take their power to the field with them. The diesel electric tractor makes a lot of sense as you may have read. The flexibility of electric powered farm tools will offer a lot of flexibility.

I read an article regarding the big JD. The duty cycle times were horrible. But it's a start. Let's just make sure it's not subsidized by our tax money.

 

[MossRoad]

Deere & Co unit wins $664 mln U.S. defense contract -Pentagon | Reuters

 

[ovrszd]

Deere & Co unit wins $664 mln U.S. defense contract -Pentagon | Reuters

Do you call that tax subsidizing?