Digger Pine ideas

[safar]

I was looking for suggestions on what might be the best uses of fallen Digger Pines (California Foothill Pine)

We had about 5 (80-100' in height) pines fall during a recent rainstorm and probably another 3 to 5 that should be cut down and a few oaks.

1 - Wood Chips.
Chipping these as wood chips for mulch would likely be the most useful. I don't own a wood chipped, so that's an investment, but considering a Truck Load of mule in my area is $600-800 buying a wood chipper might be a useful investment as we have lots of trees to deal with annually.

Haven't ever used wood chipper, so not sure how time prohibitive it would be to trim the pines to a manageable size for a chipper and what good chipper options might be.

2 - Chainsaw mill for boards.
Have a couple great Chainsaw's, so could try and mill some boards for horse fencing. Not sure if that's a better use of time and effort.

Really just looking for some ideas.

 

[34Willys]

One of our most worthless trees, unless you're a treeing game being pursued by hounds through Chemise.
I had a friend who logged it and sent the logs to a plywood mill in Klamath Falls to make high end interior veneer.
We made some picnic tables out of 4x8 tops and they rotted very quickly. The wood is very brittle with almost no structural value, burns and smokes like a coal rollin' punk diesel truck driver, and sheds cones that are like tank mines.
But, they give a color and shape to the brushy hill sides that are unlike any other tree. Beautiful.
So, burn or chip. Don't waste your time milling for outdoor exposed projects.
Patrick

 

[GSVette]

I have a Victory 8H that I chip Ponderosa pine limbs and some trunks with. I’m running off an LS XR4155HC. At 6 or so inches at the butt I have to slow the feed down to chip. Haven’t run anything larger than that but would expect I could chip at the max just at a fairly slow feed.

Smaller stuff I can’t even keep up with it. Nice to have lots of chips around for mulch and trails.

 

[safar]

Thank's for the replies - I think a wood chipper makes the most sense and the mulch would definitely be useful.

Trying to research the different options now;
Reading different posts and trying to narrow down between WoodMaxx WM-8H, Victory WC-8H and Woodland WC88

 

[GSVette]

I ended up with the victory 8H and am very happy with it.

 

[ericm979]

I have a Woodmaxx 8H on a tractor with 32 PTO HP. It will chip hardwoods up to about 6" or so with the feed turned down all the way. I could use 10hp more when doing that. If you're using a BX23 it's not going to be able to chip much. An 80' high digger pine will have a lot of trunk that's larger diameter than an 8" chipper can take.

A small commercial style trailer chipper might be more like what you need. Decent used ones were stupid expensive in NorCal a few years ago and it's probably worse now. You might do better to rent one. If nothing else, to see what works and does not work for you.

Whatever chipper you use, get one with power feed instead of self-feeding. They're a lot safer.

Coast live oak makes good firewood. If it's died from SODS cut it down and process it immediately as SODS killed trees rot fast.

 

[safar]

Thanks - not a Bx23. I have a new MX6000 (57 hp PTO)

the trunk diameter was my other consideration- the diameter on some of these is atleast 20 inches so would involve first getting these sawed to manageable sizes - so might not always make practical sense, but it has to be cut down even if it to burn or dispose of them.

renting where I live is a real nuisance with hauling and availability, plus buying something albeit a little slower allows for flexibility to work a couple hours every now and then. I have a 5 acre empty piece of land where the trees can wait.

 

[ning]

I cut it up and either burn logs on a pile or leave it on the ground to rot (which barely takes any time).

The stuff has the most sap of any wood I've seen, and watch out for skull-splitting cones - if you see a squirrel run up one, don't go near that tree for a while because it's probably rigging to drop one on you (friend got a broken shoulder getting hit by one - near miss to the head!).

Another thing to consider about these is that they seem to die almost arbitrarily but always after growing at a severe angle (unlike most pine, they'll grow towards sun instead of just soldiering on vertically until they finally get some). This results in a super brittle dead tree that's got a 20-30° lean. If one grows anywhere near a structure make sure you cut it at first sign it's leaning towards anything you care about or you're going to be hiring a crane crew to cut it down eventually (if the wind doesn't beat you to it!).

(Pic: one that looked live and happy one year and was falling apart the next; it's leaning away from anything so I couldn't care less at this point and it's providing endless entertainment for a flock of woodpeckers.)

 

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Lives are in the balance!

 

[ericm979]

Digger pines and acreage, you're not in San Francisco.
If you're somewhere like the San Antonio Valley then yea, renting will be a huge pain. For those not from there, it's at least 45 min on very twisty roads to any civilization.

Chipping tree trunks in a smaller chipper is not going to be easy. If you cut and split the logs into firewood sized pieces it's difficult to get them into the chipper because they are short. I'm not sticking my arms in there! I can chip those by using my Woodmaxx's feed roller lift arm to pick up the roller and then tossing the piece in, but that gets old after more than a couple and would suck for a log's worth. You have to time it just right to let the roller down on the piece to drive it into the knives. You could cut 3-4' logs and split those which would make for safe lengths to feed the normal way, but that's not easy either.

With the size tractor you have I'd look at Woodmaxx's MX line with the hydrostatic feed. It's got some design improvements over the 8H, like a better feed drive and no open windows in the chute where branches can jam. It doesn't happen often but when it does it can take some work to get them out.

 

[safar]

Ha - not in San Francisco! Sorry, just updated to N. California (halfway between SF and Tahoe).
Also updated to add the MX6000.

Appreciate all the thoughts and advise thus far - these were some of my concerns and trying to cut trees down to a manageable size to run through a chipper is not something I’m looking forward to.

left a couple trees downed, but in 4 years they still are pretty much intact and just a nuisance now with about a total of 7 fallen trees all over the property and atleast another 5 that need to come down.

The pine cones falling are a real nuisance (and danger)

There is no sense to which ones fall - ones that look healthy all of a sudden fall, and some dead / half dead ones hang on for years and every winter I have a few huge limbs fall, which is really getting dangerous


Burning is not really feasible being in a high fire risk area, the burn piles can only be 4ft x 6ft and the local fire department is called on any fire that appears larger than that.

trying to get them off the property is too expensive.

insurance doesn’t want any downed trees on the property (and they inspect annually)

getting a wood chipper seemed to be the only reasonable solution thus far, but it’s not going to be easy either.

I don’t know - my neighbor just had to cut 20 trees and he can’t figure out how to get rid of them either and ended up cutting them to 2 foot pieces and trucking them to a processing place that accepts them for free - so essentially you spend about $300-500 in labor, time and fuel to get rid of each tree.

 

[ranger danger]

Safar, apears we might be in close proximity. I'm in apple hill. Digger pines, the bain of the tree world! I pile them and use them for bon fires. Not good for anything else. I have a woodmax 8h behind a m6060. The sap just gums up the blades and indeed rollers. I would NEVER burn that junk in a fire place or stove. Good way to burn your hobble down!

 

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Burning is not really feasible being in a high fire risk area, the burn piles can only be 4ft x 6ft and the local fire department is called on any fire that appears larger than that.

Right now here (Nevada County) we've had burning allowed recently, no permit required... so I'm not quite sure if we're limited to the permit's 4x4' limits. I've never stayed within those limits anyhow as I find such a small pile is hard to keep burning cleanly; as far as I can tell, my neighbors appreciate my efforts (ie, they've never complained one way or another... though I've never heard words of encouragement, either).

Not saying I burn huge piles mind you, just more like an eight foot circle.

@ericm979 I wonder if cutting the logs into say 6' lengths, and using one of those dangerous-looking cone splitters maybe on a phd (is this possible?) you could potentially make longer thinner splits out of a log that you could use in the chipper? I'd expect not in oak, but the ghost pine splits very readily.

 

[ranger danger]

In Eldorado countyThere are 2 types of burn permits. The first is a 4x4 fire but, if you get the county permit, the limit is 300 feet from a neighboring property and 10'x10'.

 

[34Willys]

In our County, Lake, we can get a 'smoke management plan' and then burn pile sizes and burn hours are not so limited. We've burned many huge piles over several days. Plenty of material since forest fire killed it all. You can see a very small portion of it in my avatar. Unless you have a lot of other uses for a chipper, I would rent a chipper rather than gumming up my own.
Patrick

 

[ericm979]

Interesting that your ins co inspects. I had the State Farm agent out once in 25 years and he only looked at the house. Cal Fire's been out twice and all they did was glance around, say "looks ok" and give me a blue reflector for the hydrant. OTOH our county's air pollution rules make burning essentially impossible. I have some huge piles of stuff- poison oak and wood too large or nasty to chip. They're all far away from buildings.

It's interesting that the ins co cares about what's on the ground. Large diameter dead wood on the ground is the least dangerous from a fire perspective as it burns slow and on the ground. Standing dead can be a ladder into the crowns of live trees, and of course ladder fuels (brush and small trees under the big trees) do that too.

The cone type splitters scare the crap out of me. I'd try splitting logs with a maul or wedge first.

 

[safar]

Thank you so much for all your replies - It's really helped sort out whether a chipper makes sense.

Safar, apears we might be in close proximity. I'm in apple hill. Digger pines, the bain of the tree world!

Ya, quite close. Near Cool - definitely not as cold as where you are! And way more pines up that way.

In Eldorado countyThere are 2 types of burn permits. The first is a 4x4 fire but, if you get the county permit, the limit is 300 feet from a neighboring property and 10'x10'.

I have the El Dorado county permit, we're now considered in a "High Risk Area" so all it takes is for a neighbor smelling smoke, and seeing a fire for the Fire Department to be called out.

Apart from that, to try and keep a burn pile small, means having to constantly watch it and ensure it's safe overnight. Anything more than smoldering at night is going to be an issue - so pretty much spending a whole weekend not getting anything else done but feeding the fire.
The idea of the wood chipper made sense as I would essentially be spending the same time looking after a fire or working on getting everything chipped up.

The sap just gums up the blades and indeed rollers.

I didn't think about that - thank you for the insight. These trees are a real pain.
I wonder if cutting them down, piling them for a year or so in a safe place would allow some of the sap to drain out.
I have 2 felled trees that have been sitting for 2 years. I might try taking a look.

Unless you have a lot of other uses for a chipper, I would rent a chipper rather than gumming up my own.

I think this probably is the best idea now - Might get everything ready and rent a commercial chipper for a weekend and try getting it all done.

Interesting that your ins co inspects.

Everybody in a 3 mile radius has had their insurance cancelled due to high risk, so we're dependent on the California Fair Plan and one other option. They even have people driving around and taking pictures from outside if there is too much leaf and branches fallen.


Really appreciate all the responses. Thank you

 

[ranger danger]

The wife and I lived in Kelsey for several years when we first got started. Shopped in Georgetown. Spend days and days up the Rubicon. My wife was born in Placerville. We are also in the high fire area.

For fire permits, the regular permit from CalFire is an LA62A permit which allows fire up to 4 feet. If you go to a CalFire office, you can get a LE-5 permit where you state the maximum size of fire you intend to burn. You can also get the CA air resource permit which allows a fire up to 8 feet.

 

[Richard]

Wow. I've never heard of a Digger Pine.... so the comments about the pine cones falling and breaking your bones was comical..... until I looked them up and saw that they really are HUGE.

Wow.

I had no idea.

 

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Wow. I've never heard of a Digger Pine.... so the comments about the pine cones falling and breaking your bones was comical..... until I looked them up and saw that they really are HUGE.

Wow.

I had no idea.

They're not just big.
They're also rock hard and almost as heavy.
And then there's the spikes that stick out about half an inch to an inch - if one hit your head and by some miracle it didn't cave your skull in, you'd have multiple trepanations to deal with still!