Digging a pond.

[Greenhouseray]

Hi All
We have a wet spring that flows most of the year. It currently flows through a tile to a creek at the back of our lower 40.
For my Birthday I bought myself a new John Deere 790 with a 419 FEL. My wife has requested that I use my new toy to dig a pond ( 15ft.x 10ftx 3ft deep )adjacent to her perennial bed where the spring bubbles from the earth.
I am planning to fabricate a tooth bar similiar to those described in the Build it yourself forum. Will I as a novice utility tractor operator be wise to attempt digging this pond? Should I call in the backhoe guys? I have lots of time and enjoy using my new toy that goes whirrr and goes clunk. It might be more interesting than moving 25 yards of mulch, which has been my largest project to date.
Thanks for your advise.
Greenhouseray

 

[EddieWalker]

If you have the time, I'd think it would be a fun project. It's not real hard to dig the dirt, but finding a place to put it is the real challenge. Hauling it any distance at all will eat up all your time and be the biggest part of the project.

If you hire it out, that will still be the biggest part of the job.

One thing to remember about ponds is they are never big enough. If you can, make it at big as you can!!!! Especially if you have a water source available to keep it full.

Have fun,
Eddie

 

[Greenhouseray]

Thanks for your reply Eddie.
I have plenty of lowspots in the back field that need fill. We live in a valley between two ridges of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Our back field is the lowest spot in the valley, hence the wet springs. I guess I am more concerned with the method of digging with the FEL, since I have never attempted it. Any advice on how to dig utilizing the JD790 W/ FEL would be most helpful.
Thanks for a great series of forums, I appreciate the help I have recieved to date.
Greenhouseray

 

[wushaw]

Digging with your FEL only will produce poor results in dirt that is not loose.
You need to use your 3pt and pull a ground engagment attachment like a Box Blade with the rippers down.
After pulling up a few piles of dirt with the BB then you can use the FEL to carry the spoils to where you want it.

 

[browns40]

Hi Ray,

I'd absolutely dig the pond yourself! Be sure to check about permits needed though...

You even have a backhoe to work with... that project will get you "up to speed" with using your loader, backhoe, shifting, etc... (not saying you're not just that practice makes perfect!)

I am finishing mine up now... I filled & drained it to visualize what I wanted for a finished product... just shaping around the back & sides now! Then I can get to the land behind it...

It is great fun! And I did not have the benefit of the BH on it!

Enjoy your seat time!

 

[MarkV]

To me, much of whether it is a practical project will have to do with your soil conditions. Do you have much rock in the area that the loader can not handle? Is the soil such that there is enough clay in it to seal the pond so it will hold water once dug and compacted? How will you control the spring flow while digging so you are not digging mud?

I would think the other concern would be the spring itself. Some springs will naturally divert themselves when disturbed. Have no idea how to predict this but it has come up in the past that people have lost a spring by trying to dig it out.

Nothing is more fun than moving dirt when you have a new tractor. Enjoy!

MarkV

 

[Greenhouseray]

Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies:
To answer a few of Mark's questions:
We have clay soil with absolutely no rocks. We had a swimming pool put in. They dug to nine feet and did not come up with a single rock. The flow of the spring is now being carried to the creek in a solid PVC pipe tile. It is our intention to dig the pond beside the tile and put in a pond liner. When we have that done then divert the flow from the tile with a valve to the pond and then the overflow of the pond back in to the tile beyond the pond. That way we can divert the flow back to the tile, when we want to work on the maintenance of the pond. We would not disturb the discharge of the spring which would be about 6 ft upstream of the pond.
My main purpose of posting is to understand how to manipulate the bucket and the tractor to dig with it. The Idea of using the box scraper is good if I had one. I am making a tooth bar for the bucket. Could I not loosen the soil with the teeth? I would like to read the experiences of others who have been there and done that. What angle of the bucket should I approach the soil at?Is there any thing I should know so I do not damage the FEL? That type of info would be most welcome. I have four wheel drive on my 790.
Thanks
Greenhouseray

 

[npaden]

With a toothbar on your bucket I think you will be able to do it but it might help to make it as soft as possible first. Maybe divert the water over the area you are going to dig for a few days and let it soak in then wait a week or so and start digging.

When you start using the loader you should be able to figure out what works best for you. Depending on how you are digging, either the tires are going to start slipping or you are going to stall the tractor out if you take off to big of a chunk. You will be able to figure out what gear works best and go from there.

When I'm digging in undisturbed soil I actually get a little run at it and start lowering the bucket while I'm moving toward the area I want to dig. Start at a slight angle then dig in a little more as you move forward. It might take a few tries to get the grass and topsoil off, but then you should be able to dig fairly easily unless you have very hard clay soil.

Once you get into some bigger scoops you will figure out that the tilt function of the bucket has more strength than the lift function so when you are into a big patch of dirt and the loader won't lift try to tilt the bucket back as you go forward to get a full scoop.

Depending on how well it is working you may be able to get a full scoop as you are digging or you may need to work with getting smaller scoops as you are digging and push the dirt around and after you dig a bit grab some full scoops to move the dirt where you want it.

Depending on the type of pond you are wanting you might want to build up the edges a little to keep runoff out of the pond as it will wash dirt and other junk into the pond.

Here's the pond I dug with my FEL:

FWIW, Nathan

 

[Greenhouseray]

Thanks Nathen
Your pond is exactly what we want to do. You did a nice job! Thanks for the tips.
Greenhouseray

 

[MarkV]

Sounds like you are in good shape to give it a go. I like the fact that you will not disturb the spring source area. In your profile you list that you have a tiller. I often use my tiller as a counter weight when doing FEL work and it would be great for loosening soil to get full bucket loads with your loader. Make a few passes with the tiller, scoop up the spoils with the FEL, move to disposal area and repeat until out of diesel. Sounds like a good weekend.

MarkV

 

[PineRidge]

If your pond is going to be of any size you will be moving massive amounts of soil. It can be done if you have lots of time on your hands.

My neighbor rented a large dozer for 30 days to make his pond. The pond turned out great, and it's large enough that he has a jet ski.

 

[Timber]

Ponds are a great project. There are several ways to do them. My Dads pond had a small river running by it and a low water table so he had kind of a swampy area. We dug out the pond and diverted the river through it and made a set of locks on the other end to control the level and to let the top skim off. He has an old Dynahoe that made shot work of it. I have built smaller ponds with liners for Coi fish, more water gardens then ponds. Filters and pumps are important to keep them clean and there are a lot of options depending on what you do. When it comes to ponds this is what I tell people
1) The pond as a whole is the life form. The fish,plants,water,bactera,bugs are the cells of the body. You are building an eaco system and is subject to the seasons. Algey blooms in the spring, over population by the fall. Never the less they are about the most peaceful thing you can add to your property.

 

[dirtworksequip]

MarkV gives good advice. Till the area you are working in. It makes digging the dirt with the FEL 10 times easier and you will put less stress on your loader. Go straight into what you are digging.Don't try to dig with just one side or corner of your bucket. You will twist your bucket or damage your loader frame. Have fun!

 

[npaden]

A couple things I thought about since I posted yesterday.

1) Make the pond a little bigger. You can buy a 30'x50' pond liner for around $1,000 and that would make a nice sized pond. That would make a 20' X 40' pond once you factor in the amount of extra liner you need to go down the sides and overlap the top.

2) You are going to have some serious ups and downs going in and out of the pond with the tractor. The smaller the pond the more this is a factor. My pond is only 3' deep but it was a wild ride in and out of the pond digging those last few buckets. You might want to make a more gentle slope or at least you need to have a ramp on one side to get in and out of the hole. On my pond one side is sloped gradually and the other sides have a steeper slope. I also dug a plant ledge on one side to grow plants in.

There are lots of other ideas you could consider. Check out www.pondboss.com there are lots of good ideas there.

 

[Greenhouseray]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Much appreciated.
Of course I can use the tiller. The most obvious stares me in the face but I don't see it. I guess thats the best part of these discussion forums. Thanks Mark for helping me to see.
Went down to register for Medicare today. Maybe age has somthing to do with it.
Greenhouseray

 

[Renze]

What generally works best on hard soil is to lift the front wheels of the ground and vary the digging depth with the bucket tip/tilt only. Especially when you have only 2wd.
With 4wd it still works best this way in hard soil, in loose soil it works best to tilt the bucket down forward and use the lifting during scooping to get weight (and traction) on the front wheels.

Saturday i levelled a truckload of ground asphalt, trucked in by a friend of my brother who works on major roadways. this stuff is so heavy that, when pushing the bucket into the pile, it pushes the loader down, and the oil through my safety valves, against the pump flow...

Just scrape off layers of about 3 to 5 inch at a time, this will reduce the required tear out force.

 

[3RRL]

Ray,
A couple of things I've learned from TBN when using the FEL to dig a large area. Don't try to dig too deep when taking a cut. Ever had a buddy give you a hair cut? You end up with a bunch of "gouges" and will have to ry to flatten them out while you're driving in there. Once you get them, I found it REAL hard to get everything flat again with the FEL because you're constanly diving over a hump or ditch and that repositions the bucket relative to the cut you want to make. I now try to take a 2" or 3" (maybe 4") cut and drive forward until I get a bucket full. That works good for me on larger surfaces.

Another thing, if you can swing it, definitely buy a boxblade with scarifiers. You'll more than likely find a million more uses for it anyway. Loosening the soil is always better. I drag the boxblade down behind when "scraping" with the FEL...so I get 2 buckets full... moving alot more dirt per pass. Plus the boxblade tends to level somewhat the dipsy doos left by the FEL. May sound dumb but it works for me.