Oil & Fuel Dire fuel predictions

   / Dire fuel predictions #51  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...If we had the discipline to conserve, they would definitely notice....Conservation would be so easy for most people because we waste so much but we don't want to make the sacrifice by ourselves...)</font>

I mentioned this in another post (about steel prices), but conservation is the only way to fight the gas prices. Unfortunately, you're correct that we lack the discipline to do it ourselves.

It was for this reason that back in 1993, Senator Charles Robb introduced legislation (S.1068) that would have increased gas taxes by a total of 50 cents per gallon.

Economics is normally based on supply and demand, and as the price of something increases, demand is usually lowered. In the case of gasoline, we appear to be so devoted to our bad habits and gas guzzling cars, that we'll pay any price rather than change our consumption. Sometimes, what it takes is a shocking increase so high that it gets our attention.

The beauty of a very high gas tax increase is that many consumers wouldn't have to pay it. If they cut back in their driving, car pooled more often, or bought more fuel-efficient vehicles, their consumption would drop and the increase in tax would be absorbed. For those who refuse to give up their giant SUVs, etc., they'd just have to pay the price for their stubbornness. And, the increase gas tax revenues would pay for much-needed infrastructure improvements on our highways.

Back in 1999, even Gregory Mankiw, who is now President Bush’s Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, argued that a 50 cent gas tax is a necessary component...he explained that increasing gasoline taxes would lead to more rapid economic growth, less traffic congestion, safer roads, and reduced risk of global warming--all without jeopardizing long-term fiscal solvency. 'This may be the closest thing to a free lunch that economics has to offer.” [Fortune, 5/24/99]

One objection to an increase in gas taxes is that it would penalize those who have no choice in the amount of miles they are required to drive to do their jobs, and may have no choice in the vehicle they use. There are a couple of ways around this. First of all, there are always choices in vehicles. For example, the truck industry has LP Gas-powered trucks available, but few businesses buy them -- even LP Gas "bobtail" delivery trucks are most often diesel powered! Second, the vehicle manufacturing industry could come up with more fuel efficient vehicles; they just have to have people demand them.

As for the matter of people who are required to drive a certain distance in their jobs and can't conserve, it might be interesting to have a national gas card that would produce a discount in the taxes. Recently, the State of Florida raised the tolls for the Florida turnpike. However, for anyone that uses the state's "SunPass" transponder, the rates were NOT increased -- the SunPass bill is still at the old toll rates. Generally, it is the people who use the turnpike regularly, such as commuters and service and delivery trucks, who have SunPass. Something similar could be worked out so that eligible commercial users could have a TaxPass card and avoid the increase.

Someone recently characterized a gas tax increase as a "wacky" idea. Personally, I think it's a great idea, if handled properly.
 
   / Dire fuel predictions #52  
Hi
Just what we need, more taxes that will solve all our problems. Just send big brother all of our earnings and they will take care of us.

Charlie
 
   / Dire fuel predictions #53  
Don, I think I understand the theory, but think you're overlooking one factor. You say people can change to a more fuel efficient vehicle if they don't want to pay the high prices. Well . . ., there's some validity to that argument, but we don't all drive expensive new vehicles, and can't run out and trade for a new one every time they come out with something better or more fuel efficient. So, for some folks, it's cheaper to pay the high fuel price than to trade vehicles, and since those people are having to pay more for the fuel, it'll be that much longer before they can save up enough to trade. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
   / Dire fuel predictions #54  
<font color="blue"> Personally, I think it's a great idea, if handled properly. </font>
This is the crux of the issue. Tax related legislation is almost never handled properly, it's ostensibly collected for one purpose then gets used for another purpose, e.g. FICA. Yet another tax on gasoline is another regressive tax (a tax that takes a larger percentage from the income of low-income people than the income of high-income people). If legislators were so concerned about the price of gasoline, they'd eliminate the special blends required in many cities, they'd eliminate (or temporarily suspend) the federal/state taxes on gasoline, etc.

<font color="blue"> we'll pay any price rather than change our consumption. </font>
No offense, OkeeDon, but so what? It's my money, why shouldn't I be able to spend it as I see fit? Every car we have gets over 30 mpg and I carpool to work. The full sized pickup we have has been relegated to less than 2,000 miles per year. But these were my choices and not the government using tax policy to affect my behavior.

<font color="blue"> to pay the price for their stubbornness.</font>
A bit of a perjorative term, stubborness. It's a choice people would make because of their particular circumstances.

<font color="blue"> a national gas card that would produce a discount in the taxes. </font>
Who would adminster this?

<font color="blue"> Sometimes, what it takes is a shocking increase so high that it gets our attention. </font>
We've just had a dramatic increase in price and before it can work its magic of reducing demand, which will reduce prices, politicians are falling all over themselves to first blame each other and then figure out what can be done to lower the prices, even to the point of tapping into the strategic fuel reserves, thus rendering them the tactical fuel reserves.

Every person has the capability of reducing what they pay for gasoline. How? By doing the very things you mention. Carpooling, more fuel efficient vehicles, using public transportation when possible, combining trips, etc. All without a single government program.
 
   / Dire fuel predictions
  • Thread Starter
#55  
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Do you drink 37 gallons of Pepsi per week???

Dave
 
   / Dire fuel predictions #56  
Yeah, but I don't drink 45 gallons of Pepsi a week. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
   / Dire fuel predictions #57  
Hi
Nope don't drink that much pepsi nor do I use 37 gallons of gas a week either.

If you compare your hourly wage to a gallon of gas now and what it was 30 years ago gas is cheaper now. it should be about 6 dollars a gallon. What hasn't doubled or even more in the last 30 years.

All I'm saying is we don't have any reason to complain about the price of Gas anymore than we do about the price of other products.

Charlie
 
   / Dire fuel predictions
  • Thread Starter
#58  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( What hasn't doubled or even more in the last 30 years.)</font>

Ya know, this argument has never really set with me. What matters is the here and now, and the future. The past is written in stone and is unchangeable. If the cost of fuel for me is too high at this time, then that's the bottom line....it's too high. There are way too many goods and services that have changed their status over time. You could just as easily say that the price of salt is practically free these days when compared to Roman times when soldiers were actually paid with salt (latin for salt is "Sal" from which we get our english word salary). My point is that times change, priorities change and how we percieve the relative value of an item changes daily, and never stays the same.

Dave

P.S. I do not advocate ignoring the past. I am a believer in the phrase "If we do not learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat our mistakes."
 
   / Dire fuel predictions #59  
One area of gas price gouging that has been going on forever and never mentioned is the price of premium gasoline. The cost price to produce premium over 87 octane fuel is about 4.3 to 5.7 cents per gallon. Yet the pump price is anywhere from 16 cents to 24 cents more per gallon.

When I was an area supervisor for a gasoline marketer 8 years ago the going excuse was that premium gasoline had more additives. Those days are gone now. All your fuels have an "additive package" now to meet clean fuel laws.

I am surprised this never gets mentioned.

As for comparing todays prices to those 30 years ago is unfair too. Todays productivity is much higher than it was 30 years ago. For every barrel of oil we are able to crack much more refined product out of it.
 
   / Dire fuel predictions #60  
I do not believe that conservation is the way to fight gas prices. If the oil companies sell less product their total profit will go down, their bottom line will look bad, and the shareholders will scream bloody murder. When this happens they will raise prices to make up for lost revenue. It has happened before, it is happening now, and it will happen in the future.
 

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