Disc Harrow Adjustment

[gwdixon]

Thanks for posting the pics. I noticed the Frontier link shows the plow between the front and rear gangs and yours appears to be in front of the front gang. Any thoughts or comments as to one possibly being better than the other?

Mine was put there to allow the mount to seat against the adjustment bars on the front gang. The tremendous force of dragging through the soil is absorbed by the bars/frame and the sweep won't move around.

Perhaps the sweep located after the front gang and before the rear gang would more efficiently clean the center stripe in turns. Can't say for sure. The way mine is set up there is no problem in turns (knowing full well that tandem discs basically don't do well in turns).

 

[deere5105]

Got behind a farmer pulling a large tandem disc harrow last week and noticed his disc harrow had the plow point in the middle. After giving thought to having to make multiple passes due to the strip being left, I am leaning hard toward adding the plow point. I looked back through some bids I had received when looking at new disc harrows and came across one for a Frontier unit that included the center plow in the quote. Frontier refers to it as 5TL11476 and it was quoted as a $248 option. Since I would have to buy the pieces to cut and weld to build one I am considering finding one ready to install. Any ideas where something like this could be found besides the Frontier unit? Going to price check that unit again next week to see what all it comes with and if I can get the price down any.

 

[boggen]

might suggest the middle buster, or cultivator shank, or even a tooth for a box blade, modified sub soiler. be placed between front and rear gangs. so if you hit a rock and it bends , it does not take out a gang of discs and in that also any sort of bearings in the end one of the gangs.

i would imagine, you are looking for something that has higher grade strength of metal. that has more of a thicker metal. so when it is in the ground and you take a turn. it turns to vs getting bent and twisted.

what ever you do use, think about any sort of hard dirt or large rock it may hit, and the middle piece of metal bending downwards as the tractor keeps pulling along, causing disc to come up off the ground, as this middle piece of metal bends and twists or breaks off.

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what ever you are discing, do you fell like you need to make a second or third pass over the ground. to help break things up and flulff the dirt up some more and also get discs to cut in a little deeper on second or third pass?

are you looking at plowing and then discing and letting ground dry some, and then hit things one more time with a disc before planting?

are you looking to say disc the front yard. to help remove some ruts, or un-evenness within the yard. and then tossing some grass seed out. and using disc, to get grass seed under some dirt?

are you running something before hand like a plow? or tiller or something else? were middle strip really does not become an issue?

what about after pulling a disc, is the planter, or chain harrow or harrow, does it have anything to deal with middle strip and not a big deal?

 

[deere5105]

might suggest the middle buster, or cultivator shank, or even a tooth for a box blade, modified sub soiler. be placed between front and rear gangs. so if you hit a rock and it bends , it does not take out a gang of discs and in that also any sort of bearings in the end one of the gangs.

i would imagine, you are looking for something that has higher grade strength of metal. that has more of a thicker metal. so when it is in the ground and you take a turn. it turns to vs getting bent and twisted.

what ever you do use, think about any sort of hard dirt or large rock it may hit, and the middle piece of metal bending downwards as the tractor keeps pulling along, causing disc to come up off the ground, as this middle piece of metal bends and twists or breaks off.

============
what ever you are discing, do you fell like you need to make a second or third pass over the ground. to help break things up and flulff the dirt up some more and also get discs to cut in a little deeper on second or third pass?

are you looking at plowing and then discing and letting ground dry some, and then hit things one more time with a disc before planting?

are you looking to say disc the front yard. to help remove some ruts, or un-evenness within the yard. and then tossing some grass seed out. and using disc, to get grass seed under some dirt?

are you running something before hand like a plow? or tiller or something else? were middle strip really does not become an issue?

what about after pulling a disc, is the planter, or chain harrow or harrow, does it have anything to deal with middle strip and not a big deal?

On some occasions there will be a need for multiple passes and sometimes only one. Typical use is breaking up for food plots for hunting and small garden. Was giving thought to the issue of what if the added plow point catches a root or some other immovable object. This is very possible/likely due to working in the woods on occasion. Currently blades will roll over any roots or hidden stumps that aren't cut. The plow point however would seem by nature to snag and hang until the weakest link either gives or breaks. If strong enough, I guess it could damage the frame. If only plowing in open field may not be an issue, but not sure for my required uses.

 

[boggen]

perhaps doing something like a sub soiler. were if the portion down into the ground nails something, a shear pin will go, and sub soiler will come up out of the ground.

see attach diagram. for a swing away tooth or what not. located in the middle of the disc.

 

[deere5105]

After considering different options, I decided to try to move the gangs closer together. I had to break it down, cut a metal plate down and reassemble. Attached are before and after pictures. In retrospect, I wish I would have removed another 1/2" or so but was concerned I would take away too much metal. Gave it a trial run and seems to do much better. Still able to see a few places where grass still sticking up. I am a little hesitant to put something like a rigid plow foot down over concern if it contacts an immovable object something has to give. This year I will be breaking up four or five new plots that I have never plowed before. Plan to use as is through the fall and reevaluate if further modifications are needed.

 

[gwdixon]

Yeah, I tried to move the gangs closer like you have done.

Notice how the "cup" of the disc blades will force the axles toward each other - more so in heavy soil. The arms that suspend the gangs from the frame are liable to flex under a heavy load.

Anyway, the two close gangs would come in contact and stop rotating. Doesn't seem like they would...but it does happen.

Plus, the contact or the side forces (or both) ended up destroying a bearing on one of the gangs that had to be replaced.

 

[deere5105]

Yeah, I tried to move the gangs closer like you have done.

Notice how the "cup" of the disc blades will force the axles toward each other - more so in heavy soil. The arms that suspend the gangs from the frame are liable to flex under a heavy load.

Anyway, the two close gangs would come in contact and stop rotating. Doesn't seem like they would...but it does happen.

Plus, the contact or the side forces (or both) ended up destroying a bearing on one of the gangs that had to be replaced.

I don't believe they will touch the way they are now. On a PICO disc we have I have seen them get together and could see and hear them rubbing, but there didn't seem to be any issues.

Out of curiosity, have you ever contacted an immovable object with the plow point you installed and if so what was the result?

 

[jenkinsph]

deere5105,
If you are concerned about the middle buster point hanging up you could set it up with a shearbolt on the front mounting. This would allow the plow point to fold backwards before it damaged the shank or disk frame.

 

[gwdixon]

Never have hit anything immovable. The point extends far enough beneath the shank that my guess would be that the plow bolts that hold the point on would fail and the point would come off. The shank is above ground level so anything contacting the shank should readily be seen first. Really not willing to experiment.

The other possibility is that something immovable would be fairly large and the point / disc would ride up over it.

 

[deere5105]

After thinking on it further, wouldn't it stand to reason that if I mounted one behind the front gangs and set it to the same depth as the gangs, that if I encountered a root or stump it would roll over it like the disc blade? If out front it might strike a hidden/unseen object first, but between the gangs should give warning or lift the disc harrow. May just give it an extensive trial run as is to see if it is a legitimate problem.

 

[gwdixon]

If you can fit one there then that makes perfect sense. Good luck...those undisced grass lines up the middle will be a thing of the past.

 

[deere5105]

Decided to make another few trial runs this weekend. The food plots were still in tall grass. I figured after recent rains the grass would lay down and cut under easily. The grass laid down easy enough, but quickly became wrapped around the axles VERY tightly. It even managed to get hung up behind the two front middle blades. Spent hours cutting it out with a razor knife. Chalked it up to wet clay sticking and adding to the problem. Proceeded to try a second time the next day in drier soil with the same end results. Another couple hours later and I don't believe I will try turning under the tall grass again. I believe mowing it first would have helped or avoided the wrapping problem. Any thoughts on







adjustment to help this? If front middle blades brought in further, close enough to touch, would that eliminate the grass hanging up between them?

 

[jenkinsph]

Mowing sure couldn't hurt and I would let the stems dry out first before I tackled it again.I doubt the blade spacing would have any effect on wrapping since the blades are all turning the same direction.

 

[gwdixon]

Yeah, discing tall grass is a recipe for failure unless you have a LARGE ag tractor and a very, very heavy disc. Some of the big ag farmers around here go through their fields with a CAT and a multi-pronged huge subsoiler first.

One year I tried going over the grassy field with a box scraper with the rippers down to try to emulate what the big boys do. That lasted about 50 yards before it looked like several hay bales were being dragged. The rippers were lifted and were just skidding along the ground.

Mowing first is the only thing that makes discing work well around here. Even then, letting the grass dry out a bit for a week or two seems to improve the disc's penetration.

Ideally, if you have a fairly small area, is to mow to 3" to 4" when the grass is a foot tall and keep it down by re-mowing until it is time to disc. It is more expensive in fuel but the process keeps the blood pressure low.

 

[boggen]

i didn't re-read back through thread. but for tall grass, if you can run a bottom plow or like through the dirt first. it really helps to turn over the "sod" and allows the disc to cut the sod into clumps. much easier and quicker. you might try drop scraficers down (teeth) on a box blade. to cut through the sod as well before running disc through.

you might try adding extra weight to disc. so the individual discs have a better chance to cut down into the sod.

you might try adjust discs, so they are parallel with wheels of tractor vs at an angle. and make a pass or 2. with added weight. so the discs actually cut down into to sod vs trying to grab and turn the sod over. then re-adjust disc back at an angle. to turn the dirt / crumble the dirt.

if you have ever dealt with "sod" rolls for putting in a new yard. to just using a spade and flat end shovel to remove some sod that was a couple inches cut thick. sod gets pretty packed together with roots from the grass. and it can take a good amount to cut through it all. to a point were a disc can start turning things over. vs just scratching the surface.

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as far as tall grass/weeds, a disc is just acting like a tiller would. and wrapping the stuff around everything.

mow it down, remove any grass clippings, and let it dry out the grass itself. and you may still yet get clumps of stuff hanging up on the disc. more so clods of "sod" that get stubborn and hang up. until ya make a couple passes to get the "clumps" cut up.

if i had a garden year before, and there is no sod / grass. generally disc just sinks in and just crumbles the dirt up fairly easily.

 

[deere5105]

All good suggestions. Typically I try to mow a week or two before discing. Thought maybe I had "super disc" and could just turn it under easily. That thought has passed! What would scrapers do in this situation? Would they be able to help keep the grass from wrapping or just bend them due to the pressure applied. I realize their intent but was curious. Still considering the plow foot, but can't imagine it would have helped in this environment.

 

[gwdixon]

Disc scrapers are designed to peel off the clay or mud from the disc blades so you aren't running on a built-up "mud tire" and getting no penetration. One of my pull-offset discs has them and that disc is used in wet conditions.

I doubt the disc scrapers would help with the grass build-up. More likely the grass would clog the narrow space between the scrapers and the blade with the result being the blade being "frozen" and not turning.

Couldn't tell from the photos whether or not the grass on your disc was there because of the underlying mud/clay or whether it was wrapped around after breaking off. Probably a little of both. If there was a lot of soil involved then scrapers might have a positive effect.

A plow foot would not have helped at all in the situation. It may have made it worse by building up grass in front of it and gathering a hay bale like I described in an earlier post.

Best bet is to keep the area mowed as you usually do.

 

[ENG18LT]

I have a couple food plots on my property and this is what I do: first year mowed short with brush hog, sprayed round up like stuff from Tractor Supply, wait week, turn over with two bottom plow (with coulters), disk, let dry some, disk again, lime, fertilize, seed, hang game cameras. This seems to work well and keeps the weeds from building up on my disk. I need to figure out how to add scrapers though.

 

[LeadPoison]

You definitely need to bush hog and let the grass dry out. Even after that the blades and gangs would get the same way. I welded some angle iron to the tubes which extended almost down the axles. This kept it cleaned out. You don't need to weld angle where the hangers are. They do the same thing.