Mowing Disengage PTO before idling down?

[radman1]

Most tractors with independent PTO do not have internal ORC's.
Many tractors with independent PTO's do have PTO brakes. The quickest way to ruin a PTO brake is to shut off the PTO at speed with a high inertia load attached.
I want to hear from anyone who has damaged any part of their tractor by idling it down before shutting off the PTO. The notion of damage from that cause is absurd and nothing more than speculation by the uninformed.
It is impossible for an implement driven by an independent PTO to move a tractor forward by turning the transmission if the main clutch is disengaged or the hydrostatic control is moved to neutral.

You are completely correct. I too am amazed at the misinformation in this thread. I had assumed everybody idles down before disengaging the pto. The only good reason to disengage at high rpm is in an emergency situation. Many attachments such as PHD, tillers have little inertial load and the pto brake can handle it easily disengaging at higher rpm. The rotary mower, chipper ect have much higher inertial loads. Basic rule, is if the pto starts under a high load, it will stop under a high load and the pto brake is trying to stop the load. Do your tractor a big favor and idle down when disengaging the pto brake.

 

[LD1]

I done some more digging and I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong.

As well as several others as well. Most modern tractors do NOT have a PTO brake. Yes a lot do but to say most is not true.

It seems that to answer the OP's origional question is dependent on what type of pto is being used.

From what I could find, the only time pto brakes are used is when you have an independen hydraulic PTO. These are the types that dont even need you to press the clutch to engage. And NO they dont have overrunning clutches either since when the pto is shut off, they arent coupled to the tractor or engine. The clutch packs in these resemble automatic tranny clutchpacks and use a piston with oil pressure to enguage. When the PTO is not enguaged the brake IS. If there wernt a brake, just the friction of a tight clutchpack and the resistance of the oil would be enough to spin the PTO a little if no load were applied, even if the PTO were off. That is the main reason for the brake. With this system, YES you need to idle down to reduce wear on the brake assembly.

In most other systems, they incorporiate an overrunning clutch. This is most evident by taking ahold of the PTO shaft (Make sure tractor is off but have PTO engaged) and it should spin freely in one direction. The other direction would try to turn the motor over. If your tractor has an overrunning clutch, there is no need to idle down. It will NOT make the implement slow any faster. And if you have added an external overrunning clutch, regardless of your pto configuration, slowing wont help either. If you have a live or transmission driven PTO and no overrunning clutch, I'd suggest adding one. With no overrunning clutch, this is where the implement CAN drive the tractor with inertia.
An example of a transmission driven PTO is the N series fords. They have no overrunning clutch either. If you are bushhogging and comming to a corner where a stop or turn is needed, and you press the clutch, the bushhog will continue to drive the tractor, because the clutch only disconnects the engine. But the bushhog is still coupled to the transmission. You either need an external OR-clutch, or must shift the trans in neutral to disconnect the final drive from the trans.

I hope this clears some things up for everyone. Here is a great write-up that explains exactally how all the PTO types work and how to tell which one you have. It cleared a lot up for me.
http://www.tractorsmart.com/main/Tractor Power Take Off Types.htm

As far as the OP goes. To my knowledge his 'bota 2710 does NOT have a brake. Just a live PTO. So idling down shouldn't matter.

Please feel free to correct anything that may be wrong, this us just how I understand it, which may or may not be correct

 

[beppington]

My 2010 L3940 manual says:

"To avoid shock loads to the PTO, reduce engine speed when engaging the PTO, then open the throttle to the recommended speed."

However, it makes no mention of what engine speed to disengage the PTO ... so I assume that for mine it doesn't matter very much.

That said, I see no reason not to throttle down to idle, then disengage it.

 

[rjkobbeman]

My 2010 L3940 manual says:

"To avoid shock loads to the PTO, reduce engine speed when engaging the PTO, then open the throttle to the recommended speed."

However, it makes no mention of what engine speed to disengage the PTO ... so I assume that for mine it doesn't matter very much.

That said, I see no reason not to throttle down to idle, then disengage it.

After reading this thread, I NOW know I have a PTO brake and have been disengaging my PTO both at idle and at full PTO speed. Can't believe this is something I have overlooked. It all makes sense now though.

I too opened up the book and read the same thing you did. Book says to engage and idle but makes no mention of disengaging.

I will certainly idle down first from now on.

 

[TripleR]

I have too many tractors and too many operators to operate each specific to their individual designs, so to simplify things, even if it is not necessary, I am going to tell everyone to use the same procedure when disengaging as engaging. I just don't understand why this is not addressed in the Operators Manual.

 

[DiezNutz]

I just don't understand why this is not addressed in the Operators Manual.

I know, I was discouraged to discover this also. :thumbdown:

Didn't even know I had a PTO brake until this thread prompted me to find out. MMM only takes a couple of seconds to wind down, I just figured there was some naturally occurring drag in the PTO clutch & MMM. :ashamed:

I suspect like most things, it isn't the actual designers or engineers that write the manuals. Especially here, considering mine's in perfect English.

 

[TripleR]

I know, I was discouraged to discover this also. :thumbdown:

Didn't even know I had a PTO brake until this thread prompted me to find out. MMM only takes a couple of seconds to wind down, I just figured there was some naturally occurring drag in the PTO clutch & MMM. :ashamed:

I suspect like most things, it isn't the actual designers or engineers that write the manuals. Especially here, considering mine's in perfect English.

I remember the Operators Manual on the old Japanese bike. "For to move the machine forward in a more fast manner it will be needed for the turning the..."

 

[milkman]

The Bx tractors have a hydraulic clutch pack. These have several disc sets that get compressed by the hydraulic clutch cylinder. When the Pto is shut down the hydraulic flow is stopped and the clutch cylinder is pushed back by a spring and the brake disc then is compressed against the clutch and thus is braking the Pto.

David Kb7uns

If I'm reading this right, the clutch stays engaged and the brake disengaged until the PTO lever is moved to the off position, so it would make sense to slow to an idle before disengaging the PTO which then engages the brake.:confused2::confused2:

 

[LD1]

If I'm reading this right, the clutch stays engaged and the brake disengaged until the PTO lever is moved to the off position, so it would make sense to slow to an idle before disengaging the PTO which then engages the brake.:confused2::confused2:

On the bx tractors, that is correct.

 

[radman1]

As far as the OP goes. To my knowledge his 'bota 2710 does NOT have a brake. Just a live PTO. So idling down shouldn't matter.

Please feel free to correct anything that may be wrong, this us just how I understand it, which may or may not be correct

I believe Kubota 2710s were all HST. If so, it should have an independant (live) pto and therefore will have a pto brake. In general, unless a foot clutch is used to engage and disengage the pto, most (if not all) newer tractors will have a pto brake.