fivestring
Veteran Member
Amen, Duc.
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Dish Network or DirecTV
- Thread starter BillG_in_TX
- Start date
- Views: 6441
Understand, I'm not defending those who did the deed. But, my understanding is that Direct's methods have roped in some people who have used the equipment for other purposes. Yes, they can defend themselves and likely get off the hook, but the "guilty until proved innocent" tactics cost them real resources in order to defend themselves. My beef is not against Direct defending their rights; it's the way in which they are using blanket suits without regard for the costs to the potential target. A shotgun blast will likely hit some of the guilty, but it might take out some of the innocent in the process.
fivestring
Veteran Member
"Direct's methods have roped in some people who have used the equipment for other purposes."
Don, what are purposes other than to pirate a signal?
Don, what are purposes other than to pirate a signal?
aloha
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As for Alhoa's story there are some major pieces missing... )</font>
No, that was a complete description of the evidence DirecTV said it had as the basis to sue him. The case is DirecTV, Inc. v. Anderson, case # 03-CV-00688-HO, U.S. Dist. Court for Dist. of Oregon. I was his attorney until it became apparent this lawsuit will not be resolved until well after the time I plan to retire. My own investigation found absolutely nothing more to suggest he had done what he was accused of.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This guy can go Pro Se )</font>
Right. He can file the motions, pick a jury, raise objections to evidence, examine and cross-examine witnesses, present his own evidence, and argue what the law means, and won't be at a disadvantage. And it won't be a problem for him and his wife to take two, maybe three, weeks off work for this. And this should not be a stressful experience, it should be an exciting life adventure.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( they dont persue if the case isn't somewhat strong)</font>
I trust you make the same assumption when you read of an individual suing a business.
By pursuing marginal cases, DirecTV may be even more effective in creating the fear to deter those who might steal their services than if they limit litigation to instances in which evidence is substantial. And so long as the one-way attorney fee recovery statute tilts the playing field in their favor they have little incentive to limit their lawsuits.
Everyone should be free to do business with DirecTV, but should be aware of the type of corporate citizen they are. Those who prefer not to patronize such a business should have viable alternatives.
No, that was a complete description of the evidence DirecTV said it had as the basis to sue him. The case is DirecTV, Inc. v. Anderson, case # 03-CV-00688-HO, U.S. Dist. Court for Dist. of Oregon. I was his attorney until it became apparent this lawsuit will not be resolved until well after the time I plan to retire. My own investigation found absolutely nothing more to suggest he had done what he was accused of.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This guy can go Pro Se )</font>
Right. He can file the motions, pick a jury, raise objections to evidence, examine and cross-examine witnesses, present his own evidence, and argue what the law means, and won't be at a disadvantage. And it won't be a problem for him and his wife to take two, maybe three, weeks off work for this. And this should not be a stressful experience, it should be an exciting life adventure.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( they dont persue if the case isn't somewhat strong)</font>
I trust you make the same assumption when you read of an individual suing a business.
By pursuing marginal cases, DirecTV may be even more effective in creating the fear to deter those who might steal their services than if they limit litigation to instances in which evidence is substantial. And so long as the one-way attorney fee recovery statute tilts the playing field in their favor they have little incentive to limit their lawsuits.
Everyone should be free to do business with DirecTV, but should be aware of the type of corporate citizen they are. Those who prefer not to patronize such a business should have viable alternatives.
ducati996
Banned
Then file a motion to dismiss or disclosure before a Judge....I suggest you find someone who can do the job correctly if you cant....
I can look at PACER records to see whats missing in this story....
Dont expect us to believe this on face value... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Duc
I can look at PACER records to see whats missing in this story....
Dont expect us to believe this on face value... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Duc
ducati996
Banned
I see his name on the PACER records his first name is Bob...
I guess the first question did he forget to respond in a timely fashion and get a default judgment against him? You have to reply when served - but you knew that
When I have time I will find out more info...
Duc
I guess the first question did he forget to respond in a timely fashion and get a default judgment against him? You have to reply when served - but you knew that
When I have time I will find out more info...
Duc
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Don, what are purposes other than to pirate a signal? )</font>
That was covered in the link I posted above about smart card technology. The satellite cards are nothing but smart cards (cards similar to credit cards with embedded and programmable chips). They are used for a variety of other purposes. I heard that someone had reprogrammed their American Express smart card to decode satellite broadcasts, but that's probably an apocryphal story; I don't know enough about the technology to know if that could be done.
I do know that I have a friend who is seriously into systems programming. He has been building and buying EPROM programmers of various types for years. One of his hobbies is reprogramming fuel injection chips for cars to get different performance. He's the type that would (and probably does) have a smart card programmer, even though he doesn't own a TV.
That was covered in the link I posted above about smart card technology. The satellite cards are nothing but smart cards (cards similar to credit cards with embedded and programmable chips). They are used for a variety of other purposes. I heard that someone had reprogrammed their American Express smart card to decode satellite broadcasts, but that's probably an apocryphal story; I don't know enough about the technology to know if that could be done.
I do know that I have a friend who is seriously into systems programming. He has been building and buying EPROM programmers of various types for years. One of his hobbies is reprogramming fuel injection chips for cars to get different performance. He's the type that would (and probably does) have a smart card programmer, even though he doesn't own a TV.
ducati996
Banned
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">( Don, what are purposes other than to pirate a signal? )</font>
That was covered in the link I posted above about smart card technology. The satellite cards are nothing but smart cards (cards similar to credit cards with embedded and programmable chips). They are used for a variety of other purposes. I heard that someone had reprogrammed their American Express smart card to decode satellite broadcasts, but that's probably an apocryphal story; I don't know enough about the technology to know if that could be done.
a TV. )</font>
OkeeDon,
They look the same to the novice but they are distinctly different. Satellite cards have ASIC processors with very specific commands for decrypting Video packets...nothing else is like it because NDS and DTV own the rights...
Dont listen to the wannabes who say the Amex card and satellite cards can be interchangable...anybody who thinks this can be used as an excuse will be sadly mistaken...
Your friend would use an EEPROM programmer, not a smart card programmer or ISO 7816 device...The progammers you mention arent really true ISO7816 devices and here is why:
There are going to be a few details which everyone will need to get straight if they wish to use this defense: The underlying problem with the 'legitimate use' defense resides in the fact that the iso 7816 readers which are sold and used in the dss community are fundamantally different from the readers used by the rest of the smartcard industry...
The difference lies in the way the reader communicates; a few years back, the various smartcard manufacturers and developers formed a standard which created a single communication platform by which all readers and software can be used easily; This standard is called PCSC and the specification can be found at http://www.pcscworkgroup.com/ . The basis of the standard and what makes the readers different is that a PCSC compliant reader contains all the firmware on the reader, which allows the reader to be recognized by the computer operating system and any of the programs running with the PCSC standard. The end result is that any PCSC complaint reader can be used with any PSCS complaint software without any compatibility problems.
The iso 7816 readers which we are all familiar with and are used for the purpose of dss hacking do not conform to this standard; these are what are known as "dumbmouse readers" since they only contain the basic rs232 serial interface and will not work directly with PCSC software.
If DTV ends up going to court to fight over the legality of the programmers, they will use this issue as their "ace in the hole" as it is highly unlikely that if someone was purchasing programmers from a dss website for their company to facilitate secure logon, they would have a very difficult time getting them working. They will also use the fact that not one piece of dss software has ever been designed to use the PCSC standard; something that should have been done long ago to promote cross-usability between the different devices..
Its even worse to prove legal uses for "Unlooper's", bootloaders, programmed cards, Atmels, etc...
You really have no chance to be successful in making your case if you get a letter or summons. People are fooling themselves if they feel they will be successful in just saying
its a legal device with many uses. Be prepared to back it up along with family and possible friends...
Just becareful and dont listen to wishful thinking people. They will sell you down the river before you know it and realize it...
Duc
That was covered in the link I posted above about smart card technology. The satellite cards are nothing but smart cards (cards similar to credit cards with embedded and programmable chips). They are used for a variety of other purposes. I heard that someone had reprogrammed their American Express smart card to decode satellite broadcasts, but that's probably an apocryphal story; I don't know enough about the technology to know if that could be done.
a TV. )</font>
OkeeDon,
They look the same to the novice but they are distinctly different. Satellite cards have ASIC processors with very specific commands for decrypting Video packets...nothing else is like it because NDS and DTV own the rights...
Dont listen to the wannabes who say the Amex card and satellite cards can be interchangable...anybody who thinks this can be used as an excuse will be sadly mistaken...
Your friend would use an EEPROM programmer, not a smart card programmer or ISO 7816 device...The progammers you mention arent really true ISO7816 devices and here is why:
There are going to be a few details which everyone will need to get straight if they wish to use this defense: The underlying problem with the 'legitimate use' defense resides in the fact that the iso 7816 readers which are sold and used in the dss community are fundamantally different from the readers used by the rest of the smartcard industry...
The difference lies in the way the reader communicates; a few years back, the various smartcard manufacturers and developers formed a standard which created a single communication platform by which all readers and software can be used easily; This standard is called PCSC and the specification can be found at http://www.pcscworkgroup.com/ . The basis of the standard and what makes the readers different is that a PCSC compliant reader contains all the firmware on the reader, which allows the reader to be recognized by the computer operating system and any of the programs running with the PCSC standard. The end result is that any PCSC complaint reader can be used with any PSCS complaint software without any compatibility problems.
The iso 7816 readers which we are all familiar with and are used for the purpose of dss hacking do not conform to this standard; these are what are known as "dumbmouse readers" since they only contain the basic rs232 serial interface and will not work directly with PCSC software.
If DTV ends up going to court to fight over the legality of the programmers, they will use this issue as their "ace in the hole" as it is highly unlikely that if someone was purchasing programmers from a dss website for their company to facilitate secure logon, they would have a very difficult time getting them working. They will also use the fact that not one piece of dss software has ever been designed to use the PCSC standard; something that should have been done long ago to promote cross-usability between the different devices..
Its even worse to prove legal uses for "Unlooper's", bootloaders, programmed cards, Atmels, etc...
You really have no chance to be successful in making your case if you get a letter or summons. People are fooling themselves if they feel they will be successful in just saying
its a legal device with many uses. Be prepared to back it up along with family and possible friends...
Just becareful and dont listen to wishful thinking people. They will sell you down the river before you know it and realize it...
Duc
I'm pretty sure that your use of the term "you" in your well-conceived explanation is intended to be a generic term, but, just to be on the safe side, I have to say, I have never purchased, owned or used any of the devices mentioned. My interest in this subject is entirely because of what appears to be draconian methods on the part of the plaintiffs. It's my understanding that the purchase of such devices is legal; it's the use of them that may be illegal, and it's my understanding that Direct is suing people solely based on the purchase. Those who have not used them for illegal purposes are being forced to expend resources (time and money) to defend themselves. One possible analogy that comes to mind would be that everyone who ever purchased a radar detecter would automatically be considered guilty of speeding and fined, without proof they ever were speeding.
thanks there is intelligent life out here .score yourself 10 additional bonus points Don.the smart card programmers are used in parking garages ,home depot gift cards,online security and on and on.contrary to other posts the lawsuit my son is in, he owns a Laundromat,they use ,i don't know the brand name,programmer for their washer/dryers .Mr dtv says anyone who uses a programmer is associated with stealing.well I know my son and his business and it's all a bunch of Hewey.that said I will not use their services,DTV, and will not any longer recommend them to anyone else.as I had in the past.
the dialog for a simple recommendation has extrapolated to another subject.OVER AND OUT! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
the dialog for a simple recommendation has extrapolated to another subject.OVER AND OUT! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif