Dish Network or DirecTV

fivestring · Feb 23, 2004

"This dragnet is catching innocent security professionals, hobbyists, and entrepreneurs." 

If these people are not using the card that was supplied by DTV, they are pirating and are anything but innocent. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Use of any other card than was provided by DTV is pirating. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif That is fraud. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif That is a felony and they should be caught. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Like MikePA said, it's in the terms of use agreement. If they don't want to use the legal card, they should switch to cable.

public's right to use technology." 

The public does not have the right to use technology to illegally obtain television programming that they do not pay for. The satellite was not put into orbit for the public to use at will, it was put there for DTV to make $$$ on.

OkeeDon · Feb 23, 2004

The above comments are correct as far as the use of fraudulent cards in satellite systems, but I'm not sure you all read exactly what Bucksnort said. Direct is not targeting people they can prove are using the cards in the receivers; they have gotten lists of names of people who have purchased smart card programming equipment, and are suing them. There are other, legitimate uses of smart card technology besides the programming of satellite receiver cards

Now, I grant you that the other uses may be pretty esoteric and most of the people who bought the programmers are probably using them for satellite cards, but that's not the point. The point is that Direct is assuming everyone who purchased a programmer is guilty until proved innocent. Legitimate users are being forced to spend a fortune defending themselves against these suits. Many of the cases have been tossed, because Direct can't prove how they were used.

PBMAX · Feb 23, 2004

Talked to Erica at DTV and she told me they do not curently offer a free dish upgrade with the purchase of the TIVO. It would be $49 plus $15 ship and handling to get a new oval 3 system dish set up...

Also unfortunatley they only offer one Tivo at $99 to a house hold and I already have mine so any new (2nd) Tivowould be off the shelf...

That said, I will probable buy the new dish and musltiswitch (if needed) and install it my self along with what ever model TIVO I want...

fivestring · Feb 23, 2004

There must be more to the story than whet folks are hearing.
There must be other links such as:
The person has DTV but has basic programming and bought the technology. (2+2=4 in this case).

What other uses or needs are there for the average person to have the smart-card technology?
I don't see any, that's why I'm asking.

aloha · Feb 23, 2004

( There must be more to the story than whet folks are hearing.
There must be other links such as:
The person has DTV but has basic programming and bought the technology. (2+2=4 in this case). )

I know a guy who is being sued by DirecTV. Here's the basis:

His name (a name which appears 42 times in the local white pages, not counting listings with initials instead of full first name) appeared on a list of persons who had ordered an electronic device which could be used as a component in a satellite TV receiver, among other uses. The records showed a ship-to address which matched his grandmother in a nearby city, and the item was to be shipped via UPS and and to be paid COD.

That's all DirecTV had on which to base their lawsuit.

To the best of my knowledge, this guy has never had anything more than rabbit ears on his TV - no satellite, no cable. His grandmother says he never received any deliveries, and remembers no COD deliveries. (The COD charge was to be over $200, so presumably she would remember.) DirecTV could not produce a single document to show the item was ever actually shipped, let alone that it was delivered and the COD charge paid.

DirecTV sued this guy under a federal law that enables them, if they win, to recover their attorney fees from him in addition to "damages" up to $10,000, but if he wins, the law does not give him a right to recover his attorney fees. When Congress passed that one, they were protecting the poor corporation from such rich and powerful guys as my friend (he's an apprentice electrician, his wife is a school teacher, so you can see why DirecTV should fear their financial resources).

The last I knew, DirecTV was refusing to drop the lawsuit and would not return phone calls and letters from his lawyers who were trying to settle the case (he figured that even if he "won," it would cost him several thousand dollars for his attorneys, and he could not afford the principle of proving himself in the right).

ducati996 · Feb 23, 2004

Well there is a lot of people who got caught buying from places that catered to illegal activity and hacking DTV's signal.
If your name came up after raids and seizures, expect a letter followed by a lawsuit later. Are you proficient enough to explain the differences of Smart card technology? and why you needed one? Good luck defending yourself, and don't forget they will ask family and friends for depositions when it goes to court...How long will your white lie hold up? Are you really innocent? 99% knew exactly what they were doing...
As for Alhoa's story there are some major pieces missing...
This guy can go Pro Se ( defend himself) if its truly all they have on him...doubt it, they dont persue if the case isn't somewhat strong (Civil Suit)...Don't do the crime if you cant pay the fine....

It has nothing to do with the service, and only helped increase DTV's popularity.
The HDTV offerings are excellent, along with the sports pkgs...

Duc

PBMAX · Feb 23, 2004

GEEEESH !!!!!What ever happend to inocent until proven guilty???
But it's that kind crap that makes many folk get a bad taste for corperate america...
A company protecting its investment is one thing but head hunting is BS...

OkeeDon · Feb 23, 2004

( There must be more to the story than whet folks are hearing.)

Nope. As the above story shows, they are being massively abusive, and the call for investigation has real merit.

I have an acquaintance (not a friend, and I can't even remember his name, right now) who is involved in programming satellite cards. He has the smart card programmer and downloads the programming programs (if that makes sense) from the web. He's always been careful not to use his name or address. He programs the cards for his own use and for a few other folks who contribute towards the costs. I don't support or condone what he is doing, but he has his own rationalizations, which make for interesting listening.

The point is, while he is not being sued (because he has been so careful), he is tied in to the underground network of people doing the same thing. Many of them have been sued. Some have settled; some have had the suit dropped; some have fought and won; and some have fought and lost. It very much depends on the courts in the area.

There was a newspaper article in our local papers a few weeks ago stating that Direct had sued 12 local people. None of the people I know who are programming the cards (and I know of more than one, although I can't remember any of their names) were among the 12. It's just a tip of the iceberg; I would guess several hundred (if not thousands) of local people have used the cards.

The point is, Direct is using these suits as a way to throw a scare into all the people involved. It's working; several people have indicated to me that they are no longer programming, distributing or using the cards. Frankly, I'm glad I never got involved, although I have to admit it was tempting.

As to what else they can be used for, a Google search for "smart cards" is illuminating. Here is one article that provides an overview. The technology is becoming so inexpensive that the uses are spreading. It is enough that some people might purchase the equipment just for experimentation.

crown · Feb 23, 2004

Fishman,
That's my biggest gripe with both companies /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif they bend over backwards to get new customers but seemingly are not very concerned with there current customers.

ducati996 · Feb 24, 2004

Its funny to hear people whine when they get caught, and declare they are innocent. As OKeeDon describes how tempting it was, and to listen to the people who programmed and downloaded the programs.

The free ride ended for these folks getting the free TV.. Now they have to pay the price either $3500 or $4500 once the civil suit is served or more if they were a dealer. Stop the whining and crying and declaring your innocense and saying how injust it is...If you feel competent enough to explain ISO7816 compliant devices, Atmels chips, software, etc and why you were downloading a specific file from a raided website, or were a paid member to a known hacking site, credit card info, mailing address then go for it !! Can they explain all that and not get caught up in a lie ?
Never had DTV but they find a system on your roof? Family members will be depositioned as well...

And DTV is the bad guy protecting their services? Not at all...
I just hate when people arent truthful and honest and expect others to believe their lies and dishonesty...just take it like a responsible person and pay the consequences for your actions...and leave the whining where it belongs-in the trash

The service is great if you dont steal it and dont get caught otherwise..

Duc /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif