N80
Super Member
I bet Bird is technically right. I might be pragmatically right. Odd though, I'm not a pragmatist. A realist maybe. But not a pragmatist.
Distance between vehicles at a red light
- Thread starter Jstpssng
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I bet Bird is technically right. I might be pragmatically right. Odd though, I'm not a pragmatist. A realist maybe. But not a pragmatist.
TomSeller
Super Member
I agree with this and Bird. Too tight is not for me. Reminds me if the people that honk at you if you aren't right on the bumper of the vehicle in front of you.
Close spacing limits the visual perspective of the driver; if you can see their tires, you can also see whats in the lane to your left past the car in front of you, and part of the lane on the right, without attempting to 'nose out' and take up two lanes. 'Rules of the Road' seem to be more related to locale and personal preference these days, rather than the 'best practice' taught by driver's ed and law enforcement. The difference between sharing the road and thats my spot you just wasted is the cognitive perspective of each driver. More spacing is, and feels safer, crowding raises people's anxiety and pares down reaction time. I live in the sticks, and have to mentally prepare for going into populated areas so I can get in and out of traffic and change lanes. Texas is the only place I've visited where people still seem to watch out for other drivers, wave people into open spots, allow room for getting onto and off of the highway--as if the drivers feel they share the road and responsibility for safety, rather than looking out for #1. The I-95 corridor from Mass to Virginia... whole different world. People learn from experience, what they see, and what they hear--more people see crowded, distracted, and impolite driving, more often than they used to... to the point many arm themselves, and get fired up to protect themselves from any SOB with road rage that wants to start something. Agitated people on the roads looking for impending trouble, not ways to prevent it, is a recipe for trouble, and the 'new normal' for many regions.
If they weren't in cars, strangers would want to keep an arms length between themselves... in cars, the arms length is supposed to be enough to see the bottom of the tires.
If they weren't in cars, strangers would want to keep an arms length between themselves... in cars, the arms length is supposed to be enough to see the bottom of the tires.
Bird
Rest in Peace
Bird's wrong? About what? If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.:laughing: But Robert, you continue . . .
I don't think I've ever said to leave a full car length or more, and I sure agree about the cell phone problem and 1-2 car lengths. What I've said is that I stop far enough back to be able to see where the back tires of the vehicle in front of me meet the road.
I, too, took drivers ed in high school using a 1956 Ford, manual transmission, no A/C, no power anything, and no exterior mirrors.:laughing: Incidentally, I moonlighted driving a school bus one year and a taxi cab in Dallas before I joined the Police Department, and I have a 20 consecutive year safe driving award from the PD. But I hope (and think) that I'm not too old to learn. I was a rookie cop when my partner/trainer taught me about stopping far enough back to see those tires where they meet the road. And I learned a better way to adjust my outside mirrors just 10 years ago when I was teaching a grandson to drive. But you're certainly right about no law or requirement. As long as you don't hit the car in front of you, you can get as close as you want to. And if you tap your horn and the driver in front of you comes back to attack you, or if his car should stall and he can't go when the light changes and there's another car close behind you, you'll have nowhere to go. And if you should get rear ended by another vehicle, you'll be close enough to the one in front of you to be sure you hit him and have both ends of your vehicle damaged.
The last accident I was involved in was 10 years ago this month. A car in front of me stopped at a stop sign on a slight downhill slope on an asphalt street in a very light rain. Naturally, I stopped behind that car, as I normally do, but even with my brakes firmly applied when I stopped a 26 year old young lady knocked my little Ranger forward several feet. Fortunately, (1) I had stopped far enough behind the car in front of me, and (2) that car took off just in time:laughing: so only the back end of mine was damaged.
Sure glad I wasn't up close. But I've told you what I do, and why. You do what you want to do, as long as it's legal.
Egon
Epic Contributor
I'll go by Bird's advice.
My outside vehicle mirrors are adjusted to show the adjacent lane to where the traffic can be seen without the mirror. Makes it much easier to change lanes.
My car has mirrors that automatically adjust for better view when backing up. This is really a nice feature.
On the truck the main mirrors look at the adjacent lane while the outside one gets the long look back.
My outside vehicle mirrors are adjusted to show the adjacent lane to where the traffic can be seen without the mirror. Makes it much easier to change lanes.
My car has mirrors that automatically adjust for better view when backing up. This is really a nice feature.
On the truck the main mirrors look at the adjacent lane while the outside one gets the long look back.
MikePA
Super Moderator
Some how this thread has morphed from 'Stop so you can see where the tires of the vehicle in front of you meet the pavement.' to 'Stop a car length behind the vehicle in front of you.' which are not the same thing, unless you're driving an Excalibur, MG-TC, MG-TD, etc.. 
N80
Super Member
Some how this thread has morphed from 'Stop so you can see where the tires of the vehicle in front of you meet the pavement.' to 'Stop a car length behind the vehicle in front of you.' which are not the same thing, unless you're driving an Excalibur, MG-TC, MG-TD, etc..
All depends on what you're driving and what the vehicle in front of you is. My pickup sits up high. I'd have to stop a pretty good ways back (at least a car length) to see the back tires on my 350Z or my wife's G37 coupe. And if I was in the Z I could touch the rear bumper of my truck and still see the tires. That's just another problem with so called 'rule'. And in the OP the driver in question did, in fact, stop a car length behind the next car.
And let's address the issue of driver perspective. Come on now, there isn't an issue. One car length or less makes no difference at all and even if it did it, again, depends on what you're driving. If I'm in my Z and I'm behind or in front of a mini-van or pickup I can't see anything else and a half car length isn't going to improve that.
And from the replies about perspective and personal comfort it seems to me that in today's world this guideline has a lot more to do with individual habit that any meaningful issues about safety. And let's be realistic, again. No amount of logic is going to change ingrained driving habits, good or bad, regardless of the problems it causes for people behind and around us. Its all about 'me' in this country and this is nowhere more evident than in traffic.
Having said that, I did change. Once. I quit using the cell phone when driving. And I mean never. I consider myself a good driver. I drive my car on race tracks and hope to become an instructor early next year and I've found that talking on the cellphone, even hands free, I am distracted. I told my kids never to do it. It makes me mad when other people do it. So I resolved to quit. If I need to make a call or answer the phone I pull over and stop. Period. No exceptions.
Pete6114
Gold Member
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I leave more space when i'm on my Bike and it has paid off a couple of times when someone coming up fast behind me wasn't paying attention and i had enough time to move (i always keep the bike in gear), which would be impossible if i was to close. In my truck, i'll try to stop several feet back, so i can still see the plates of the car ahead of me.
To some degree at least, I believe that you and some of those who disagree are comparing apples and oranges. When in relatively light traffic you can do as you describe. If you're intown, with four lane traffic backed up between traffic lights it doesn't matter because
A) nobody could possibly be travelling fast enough to push the eight cars stopped behind you into your vehicle,
and
B) even if you wanted to move the only choices would be to side shift in between the two vehicles next to you, or pull into oncoming traffic.
It's often the same thing. Since this thread started I've taken the time to measure the distance between where I can see the road, and the front bumper on my 2014 Silverado, which is very similar to what the OP was riding in. (Come to think of it that was me, and it's the same truck.Some how this thread has morphed from 'Stop so you can see where the tires of the vehicle in front of you meet the pavement.' to 'Stop a car length behind the vehicle in front of you.' which are not the same thing, unless you're driving an Excalibur, MG-TC, MG-TD, etc..
)That distance was 22 feet. In the discussion with my coworker which started this thread, there was another 15 feet of pavement between us and the Taurus (or similar sedan) in front.
Bikes are an altogether different story. You really need to ride like everybody's out to get you... Because too many of them just don't care.
I was on a steep uphill slope at a red light when I saw the backup lights of the vehicle in front of me come on... I rolled backwards down the hill a ways "Just in case." Sure enough when the light turned green they let out the clutch, hit the gas and came flying down the hill backwards at me.
Not long after that, in broad daylight and only about 1/2 mile away I was riding along a side street when a woman driving a pickup pulled out of a parking lot and cut me off. I slapped the rear brakes, kicked the wheel out and skidded sideways out in front of her, stopping with my face just inches from the plow rigging on the truck. As I struggled to get the bike back into neutral so that I could start it she sat there screaming at me to get the F%&@ out of her way... if she had been a man I would have done things differently.
That was in 1990. Because of that type of attitude I sold the bike the following spring, and as much as I'd like to have a little 750, too much time has passed for me to get on one again.
To some degree at least, I believe that you and some of those who disagree are comparing apples and oranges. When in relatively light traffic you can do as you describe. If you're intown, with four lane traffic backed up between traffic lights it doesn't matter because
A) nobody could possibly be travelling fast enough to push the eight cars stopped behind you into your vehicle,
and
B) even if you wanted to move the only choices would be to side shift in between the two vehicles next to you, or pull into oncoming traffic.
It's often the same thing. Since this thread started I've taken the time to measure the distance between where I can see the road, and the front bumper on my 2014 Silverado, which is very similar to what the OP was riding in. (Come to think of it that was me, and it's the same truck.Some how this thread has morphed from 'Stop so you can see where the tires of the vehicle in front of you meet the pavement.' to 'Stop a car length behind the vehicle in front of you.' which are not the same thing, unless you're driving an Excalibur, MG-TC, MG-TD, etc..
)That distance was 22 feet. In the discussion with my coworker which started this thread, there was another 15 feet of pavement between us and the Taurus (or similar sedan) in front.
Bikes are an altogether different story. You really need to ride like everybody's out to get you... Because too many of them just don't care.
I was on a steep uphill slope at a red light when I saw the backup lights of the vehicle in front of me come on... I rolled backwards down the hill a ways "Just in case." Sure enough when the light turned green they let out the clutch, hit the gas and came flying down the hill backwards at me.
Not long after that, in broad daylight and only about 1/2 mile away from that same intersection I was riding along a side street when a woman driving a pickup pulled out of a parking lot and cut me off. I slapped the brakes, kicked the rear wheel out and skidded sideways out in front of her, stopping with my face just inches from the plow rigging on the truck. As I struggled to get the bike back into neutral so that I could start it she sat there screaming at me to get the F%&@ out of her way. If she had been a man I would have done things differently- which probably would have resulted in an assault charge.
That was in 1990. Because of that type of attitude I sold the bike the following spring, and as much as I'd like to have a little 750, too much time has passed for me to get on one again.
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