Diverter Sanity Check

   / Diverter Sanity Check #61  
I'm still confloosed as to why you can't just swap two hoses, either at the grapple or the other end - then "open" would be to the right (and weaker) and closed would be strong to the left. More intuitive and strength where you NEED it??!? Steve
 
   / Diverter Sanity Check #62  
   / Diverter Sanity Check
  • Thread Starter
#63  

Sorry I didn't address you directly, but I thought I responded to that suggestion when I posted the picture of the service manual that showed how the valve regen functioned and explained that switching the lines to the configuration they are in now "FIXED" my completely non-functioning problem.

FACT: With regen on the dump circuit, the ONLY way this will work is if whatever function I am trying to use in the "dump" direction EXTENDS a DOUBLE-ACTING cylinder.

Reverse the hoses and I just get a grapple that closes and won't open. Not very useful even if it is more intuitive :).

ac
 
   / Diverter Sanity Check #64  
Sorry I didn't address you directly, but I thought I responded to that suggestion when I posted the picture of the service manual that showed how the valve regen functioned and explained that switching the lines to the configuration they are in now "FIXED" my completely non-functioning problem.

FACT: With regen on the dump circuit, the ONLY way this will work is if whatever function I am trying to use in the "dump" direction EXTENDS a DOUBLE-ACTING cylinder.

Reverse the hoses and I just get a grapple that closes and won't open. Not very useful even if it is more intuitive :).

ac

Ok, I understand now. I don't have any experience with regen and never read about a valve that regen could not be bypassed with the position of the joystick.
 
   / Diverter Sanity Check #65  
Valves that have regen, you simply go past regen to the power mode or those valves with regen to the far right, don,t go there.

The reason it will not work in regen is that the tank port is blocked and all the cyl fluid is routed to the base end of the cyl and double the speed of operation, but with less power.
 
   / Diverter Sanity Check #66  
Valves that have regen, you simply go past regen to the power mode or those valves with regen to the far right, don,t go there.

The reason it will not work in regen is that the tank port is blocked and all the cyl fluid is routed to the base end of the cyl and double the speed of operation, but with less power.
From what I found, the older "3 position" L45 loader valve only has regen, but the newer "4 position" valve has a regen and a non-regen position.

Aaron Z
 
   / Diverter Sanity Check
  • Thread Starter
#67  
From what I found, the older "3 position" L45 loader valve only has regen, but the newer "4 position" valve has a regen and a non-regen position.

Aaron Z

Aaron,

Where did you find that? It would be AWESOME to have the newer style valve, but I know my L45 was one from the batch that came in just after the ones that were pre-plumbed for thumbs.

I dug through the parts catalog and I do see there was a change to the loader valve part number, but no clue how to determine what that change was. Both are labeled "VALVE SELF-LEVEL". $2300+!

Any ideas if the valve is convertible to the newer style with new spools or something?

ac
 
   / Diverter Sanity Check #68  
I found it here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/9403-3-position-valve-vs-4-a.html
<font color=purple>I see this question come up alot, so I thought I'd make it a little more "searchable"</font color=purple>

The 3 position valve and the 4 position valve, both have what is known as a regenerative circuit built into the bucket dump circuit.

First let me explain what "regen" is and why.

When dumping a loaded bucket (with a good old fashioned loader control valve) the weight of the material in the bucket tends to pull the cylinders down faster than the hyd. fluid can fill the other side of the bucket cylinders. Therefore, an air pocket will develop in the cylinder causing the bucket to be a little "floppy" unless held against relief for a few seconds at the end of the dump cycle. Which creates an extra step if you want to back-drag, etc.

To solve this problem we now add a regenerative (regen) circuit into the dump function of the loader control valve.

What is "regen"? The dump function of the loader control valve applies hyd. "power" to both sides of the bucket cylinders at the same time. But Kubmech, how the heck is that going to work? Wont the cylinder just lock up and not move? No, because on one side of the cylinder the rod itself takes up space, decreasing the volume of the cylinder, on the other side of the cylinder piston there is, no rod, creating more volume. PSI=pounds per square inch, the more volume the more square inches to apply pounds, get it? O.K. so the back side of the cylinder overcomes the front side of the cyl. due to more volume and at the same time does not allow an air pocket to develop becuase of the added resistence of "hyd. power" to the front side of the cyl. allowing the cylinder to "stay tight" for subsequent operations. And as an added bonus it tends to dump faster due to the higher amount of flow/pressure to perform this operation. (Hence the "fast dump" mode the salesmen love to tell you about) In actuality the "fast dump"
mode is just derivative of the regen circuit.

Soooo..... What's the difference between 3-pos. and 4-pos. valves, besides about 35 bucks.

The 3-pos. valve has regen in the dump mode period. The problem with regen is if you want to add, say a snow plow, with power angle running off of the loader control valve, the power angle works off of single acting cylinders. With "hyd. power" being supplied to both sides of the cylinder, you will only be able to angle in one direction and that's it. (back to the whole volume-vs-psi thing again).

The 4-pos. valve has a detented position. When moving the control lever to the right, to dump (or power angle right in the case of the plow) if you choose the first detented position this is the non-regen position and will work just like the good old fashion loader control valve. If you apply a little more pressure on the control lever you will push past the detented position and move into the regen position. Thus, if you have the 4-pos. valve and want to avoid the floppy bucket syndrome you have to push full right to engage regen.

So the bottom line is; both the newer 3-pos. and 4-pos valves have the "fast dump" option. The difference is, do you want to add options to your front loader without having to add an aux valve to you're tractor or not?

Aaron Z
 
   / Diverter Sanity Check
  • Thread Starter
#69  
   / Diverter Sanity Check #70  
Look at me quoting my own post. :p

So I picked up the snowplow as described. Technically it "works". Diverter button down, left is left right is right. However, right takes an eternity. This makes sense as this is the direction that the cylinder is fighting itself.

I'm going to keep it as is, but I foresee myself swapping this diverter to the lift circuit or abandoning the whole thing and going true 3rd in the long run. Overall I'm pretty disappointed with this lesson.

ac

I finished mine connected to the lift circuit in my L3301. To me, everything thing is perfect and intuitive with the Diverter valve. I have the normal functions.
I push the button and the claw opens with a pull back and closes forward with a push forward of the stick.
You should be able to test your swap by only swapping the disconnects for curl and lift for testing. Quick and easy. Then swapping lines to the P1/P2 ports from curl to lift lines. No hardware would be needed.
I know you wanted to use this to angle a blade but I think it would be fast to learn also. I like the fact that pulling back opens my grapple. Kinda like I have a string tied to it is the mental image in my head.
 

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