DIY logging

MarkV · Oct 2, 2007

I am curious as to how someone that does their own logging to sell logs loads a logging truck? It must be different in other areas than it is here in the south. A great deal of logging goes on in our area but it is mostly pine for pulp mills. It takes a serious piece of equipment to load the logging trucks we see everyday.

MarkV

Bobvt · Oct 2, 2007

I own 110 acres (90 wooded). I have carved out 30 acres that I actively manage (cut on). (Most of the 30 acres was pasture 70-80 years ago). The other 60 acres I have done by professionals (logged in 1985 and again this coming winter). I have a forest management plan, done by a professional forester.

On my 30 acres, I remove about 10 cords of firewood a year (last 25 years). Three years ago, I started an extensive cutting. Unfortunately about 75% is going for pulp. (In 30 years after I'm gone, there is going to be some valuable timber there.) I average about a day a week from the middle of December to early March. I sell around 50 - 60 cords of pulp and 5 - 15 mbf of logs. A lot of work for very little money, but I enjoy it. Last winter hemlock pulp (at landing) brought $33/cord, pine pulp brought $28. At these prices, you aren't covering your costs.

To ensure timely trucking and full loads, I have to concentate on one species at a time. This does complicate things, as it would be more efficient to completely harvest a particular area and not have to return latter. It would also make felling a lot easier, if you aren't selectively cutting a particular species.

When cutting hardwood saw logs, it is important to line up your trucker and mill in advance. Mills have differents specifications. For instance, the best market for white birch has a minimum length of 9'4". (They will take crooked logs as long as they can get three 3' pieces out of it.)

I log with a Mahindra 6500 and Norse (10,400 lb) winch. I have a root grapple on the loader (also have the front weights on). All four wheels have chains. I can pull a pretty impressive load if the traction is good. (Front end wants to come up.) In the middle of February last year, we got nearly 2' of light snow. It never warmed up enough to settle and allow the packed snow in the logging road to freeze up. This limited my hitchs to about two thirds of normal.

If you are considering logging yourself, you should be real confident about your commitment. It is going to be difficult to get a commerical logger in after you have removed some of the most valuable timber and made a mess. Logging is dangerous. I don't care to remember all the close calls and couple of time that weren't close!

Bob

ore540 · Oct 2, 2007

MarkV said:
I am curious as to how someone that does their own logging to sell logs loads a logging truck? It must be different in other areas than it is here in the south. A great deal of logging goes on in our area but it is mostly pine for pulp mills. It takes a serious piece of equipment to load the logging trucks we see everyday.

MarkV

Small outfits use self-loaders on the truck

MinnesotaLogger.com - Peterbuilt

Youare · Oct 2, 2007

Botabill said:
Hey John Bud, how would a person drop a 30" tree with a 14" bar. I mean the only image I can conjured up is chewing around it like a beaver but still you'd have a 2 inch pieces left that the tree would teeter on . 14X2=28. Yikes!!

I'm not John Bud but I know how to cut down a 30" diameter tree with a 14" bar. Don't try this at home without professional supervision.

Once you have established the face cuts that will be your notch for the direction the tree will fall you bore directly into the intersection point of the hindge at the center of the tree cutting towards the back of the tree as far as the saw will reach. Once the saw bar is inserted all the way you may have to rotate the saw on its vertical axis to remove material behind where the back cut will be. The next step is to bore cut just behing where your hindge will be, this cut will have to meet the bore cut you just made form the front. Cut towards the hindge until it is the proper thickness and make sure it is parrallel with the notch. Go around to the other side of the tree and do the same thing. After this you can continue the back cut from the bore cut you made on the side oppsite your escape route. Once you get half way around the tree stop cutting and insert a plactic felling wedge. Go to the escape route sie of the tree and do the same thing except it would be wise to insert another plastic wedge before you finish the cut. Cut until your back cuts meet. Remove the saw and tap the wedges if necessary, once movement is detected move along your escape route.

Randy

SFish · Oct 2, 2007

Just to add a little to what Youare posted. Whether or not you are using a small saw, if you are not sure of the direction the tree is leaning, and especially when you are trying to get the tree to fall in a direction different from how it is leaning, it is best to tap wedges frequently while cutting. What you want is to move the tree in the direction of the notch while the hinge (the narrow section between the notch and back cut) is still strong enough not to break before the center of gravity is shifted in the direction of the notch. Also, in this circumstance you should have more than one escape route.

When the direction of fall is really critical (e.g. my house is in range), I hook up the winch as high on the tree as I can get, before I start, and just pull it over while the hinge is strong.

Steve

john_bud · Oct 2, 2007

Botabill,

Follow Youare's instructions.

You can learn more from the saw manufacturers sites.

Remember a light saw with a short blade will tire you out much less than a heavy saw with a long heavy blade. Most accidents happen after a long day and the person is tired. Light equipment keeps you from getting tired as quickly and is easier to manipulate safely when you are getting tired. That's why a real pro's saw can be smaller, lighter yet more powerful than a "homeowner" saw from a box store. I prefer to match the bar/blade to the saw so when held by the top handle, the saw is level. Most saws will be nose heavy when the longer bars are attached.

But, that's just me.

Think about this, at full rpm about 300 chain teeth pass by every second. That can cause a big boo boo.

Back to advice. It help skid out logs, get a nose cone to mount on the front of the log. That will help keep it from snagging on rocks/stumps.

jb

Rara Avis · Oct 2, 2007

SnowRidge said:
Amazing. I never thought piloting or navigating a boat was all that dangerous.

You forget they have to travel out in rather small Pilot boat and then TRANSFER to the ships that are inbound...The outbounds they have to exit back to the Pilot BOAT...and they get to do this in all forms of weather...10 foot seas could make that transfer pretty interesting...

SnowRidge · Oct 2, 2007

PaulChristenson said:
You forget they have to travel out in rather small Pilot boat and then TRANSFER to the ships that are inbound...The outbounds they have to exit back to the Pilot BOAT...and they get to do this in all forms of weather...10 foot seas could make that transfer pretty interesting...

Ah, but I don't forget, and I suspected someone would come back with that, but it's not always the case. The people of whom you speak are a rather tiny percentage of the pilots out there.

A pilot is someone who navigates a boat along a coast line, as opposed to the open sea. Pilotage is the art of coastal navigation.

Therefore, a seaman who is at the helm of any vessel while is proceeds along a coastal route is a pilot. By extension, this includes lakes, rivers, and harbors, so your buddy driving his bass boat to his favorite fishin' hole is also a pilot.

How safe he is probably depends on how well stocked the cooler is/was, and I ain't talking about the one that holds the fish.

Iowachild · Oct 2, 2007

MarkV said:
I am curious as to how someone that does their own logging to sell logs loads a logging truck? It must be different in other areas than it is here in the south. A great deal of logging goes on in our area but it is mostly pine for pulp mills. It takes a serious piece of equipment to load the logging trucks we see everyday.

MarkV

Here is an interesting article on that subject. The article states it is quite common in Scandinavian countries.
Farm Tractor Logging for Woodlot Owners

hayden · Oct 2, 2007

Youare said:
I'm not John Bud but I know how to cut down a 30" diameter tree with a 14" bar. Don't try this at home without professional supervision.

Once you have established the face cuts that will be your notch for the direction the tree will fall you bore directly into the intersection point of the hindge at the center of the tree cutting towards the back of the tree as far as the saw will reach. Once the saw bar is inserted all the way you may have to rotate the saw on its vertical axis to remove material behind where the back cut will be. The next step is to bore cut just behing where your hindge will be, this cut will have to meet the bore cut you just made form the front. Cut towards the hindge until it is the proper thickness and make sure it is parrallel with the notch. Go around to the other side of the tree and do the same thing. After this you can continue the back cut from the bore cut you made on the side oppsite your escape route. Once you get half way around the tree stop cutting and insert a plactic felling wedge. Go to the escape route sie of the tree and do the same thing except it would be wise to insert another plastic wedge before you finish the cut. Cut until your back cuts meet. Remove the saw and tap the wedges if necessary, once movement is detected move along your escape route.

Randy

Or you could get a 20" bar. Keep in mind that the actual working length is around 2" shorter than the nameplate length.

kvmapr · Oct 2, 2007

Another source of great information you might want to try on this subject would be over the the Forestry Forum - http://www.forestryforum.com/

My two favorite forums are TBN and FF. Because they're both populated with the same kind of great people who bend over backward to share a wealth of knowledge with anyone who asks.

Regrettably, the Forestry Forum suffered a hard disk crash a few weeks ago. End result, YEARS of incredibly valuable insight, pointers, tips, tricks, knowledge, good stories and photographs are gone FOREVER. While the FF users will slowly rebuild a new forum as the days and years pass, much of what was once available, will never be recovered. It's a real shame.

Which begs the question, is TBN's data repository regularly backed up? I sure hope so!

kvmapr

D7E · Oct 3, 2007

I am clearing 300 acres of my own land and selling up to 200cords a year split and delivered as a side to my 1400 acre farm with just 2 men ,4 saws(stihl 026 and ms 260's and 1 husky ),1 tractor and loader and a dozer the only reason we bought the dozer was we want the stumps out and will be crop land we split with a regular home built splitter on a tractor and stack nothing all goes in big piles off an elevator piles of 50-60 cords and never have a quality issue ,We only tend to do wood when farm work has finished (november to march) so 50% of the work is done in -10,-40 conditions ,I will get shot if i don't mention that the wife does a lot of the delivering with a dump box ...Just a comparison?
The wood is mainly oak , ash, maple,poplar and birch .I charge for seasoned wood..Maple and poplar $130 a cord,Hardwood $160 a cord and deliver with a home made dump trailer converted frpm a 3-ton truck towed behind a tractor?
If you are going to make a business of it you need more acres ,We can clear and pile 3-4 acres a day and land soon runs out so sometimes we buy swamp land for cheap take the tamaracks and poplars and sell it again and move on ,Alternativeley some farmers have swamp land that is treed and is useless to them and i pay $5 a cord to take trees off but you have to include the cost of running a big truck in that because it can mean running 20 miles ,Too many people will tell you firewood don't pay..It does if you are enthusiastic enough and don't like too many hours sleep ,Start cheap,Get the customers and put the price up once they now you are reliable ,Most people stick to a trusted supplier regardless of price ,But don't go crazy..Ha.Ha ?

D7E · Oct 3, 2007

whoops pressed send twice

kvmapr · Oct 3, 2007

D7E said:
if you are enthusiastic enough and don't like too many hours sleep ,Start cheap,Get the customers and put the price up once they now you are reliable ,Most people stick to a trusted supplier

Sage advice indeed! You can take these words and apply them to just about any business out there, and be a success. I know it certainly applies in the high tech services field I work in.

Do your homework, start early, and work late. It works.

kvmapr

scott_vt · Oct 3, 2007

Bobvt said:
I log with a Mahindra 6500 and Norse (10,400 lb) winch. I have a root grapple on the loader (also have the front weights on). All four wheels have chains. I can pull a pretty impressive load if the traction is good. (Front end wants to come up.) In the middle of February last year, we got nearly 2' of light snow. It never warmed up enough to settle and allow the packed snow in the logging road to freeze up. This limited my hitchs to about two thirds of normal.

Bob

Afternoon Bob,
That sounds like a nice combination there, tractor/winch !

Im awfully spoiled over here, drop most of my trees into the field and either cut them there or drag them to the house. I just lost another couple ash trees to the beetle. Are you having the same problem over your way ? Really seems ashame but its great firewood. Im just hoping that the ash trees dont go into extinction !

D7E · Oct 5, 2007

kvmapr said:
Sage advice indeed! You can take these words and apply them to just about any business out there, and be a success. I know it certainly applies in the high tech services field I work in.

Do your homework, start early, and work late. It works.

kvmapr

sorry my point was,Firewood can be profitable .If done right ,You dont need much machinery and customers are "ALWAYS" available and like me can be started as a weekend or winter thing ,But "NEVER" pay for raw material ,It is cheaper to buy land take trees and sell land ? As you said the mentality applies to any job ,But it helps ,I turned a weekend job into a $30'000 winter job in 2 years , I've seen many hard working (welders,Builders,Truckers) come to the country buy a place ,sell a little wood ,Get the bug and quit their job ,Buy a new tractor processor and saws and right away employees and spend $100'000 and who would believe it they go broke in the first year ,The only reason i have equipment is because i am a farmer ,Before i farmed with my family i did firewood for 10 years as a full time job (as a 20 year old who cannot work in the city and had business issues with father) with 1 chainsaw 1 pick-up and an axe $300 a day ,And a very satisfying tiredness at night ,And a body like a boxer...No more....**** tractors ?

Youare · Oct 5, 2007

hayden said:
Or you could get a 20" bar. Keep in mind that the actual working length is around 2" shorter than the nameplate length.

You are right about that.

The first thing I do when I get a new chainsaw is take off the "dog teeth". They take away at least an inch and a half of bar length. I find that I don't miss them at all even on my larger saw when bucking, a good sharpe chain will pull itself into the wood just fine.

Randy