DK40SE Cranks But No Start

[JohninCT]

I've got a DK40 with less than 300 hrs. Big snow is coming and this tractor runs the blower and generator. It cranks but won't start. Not even a sputter and I'm getting a little panic'd. Panel lights come on and glow plug indicator comes on and goes off normally. I think I've noticed in the past that I've had to wiggle the drive selector lever in neutral a little to get it to fire up sometimes but it has always started. Is there a neutral start switch that could be bad? I've tried both neutral positions and neither will start. If there is a switch, can someone tell me where exactly it is and can I jumper it out? Neutral indicator lights up on the panel as normal.

Any ideas to get it started. I really need this tractor.

 

[murphy1244]

So the engine turns over but no go??? Are you truly getting preheat? Are you getting fuel thru the lines?

When you go to glow plug mode do you hear the relay click on?

 

[k0ua]

Sounds like no fuel to me.. any smoke when cranking? Stop solenoid or stop relay,Possibly, or the two fuses a 10 amp and a 25 amp. the voltage on the connector pin 1 is 12 volt with the key on and and pin 2 will have a momentary voltage when you transition the key from off to on of 12 volts. So you have a pull in voltage, and then a holding voltage. obviousley check the fuses first, then locate the stop solenoid and try to take those voltage readings. report back.

james K0UA

 

[kco]

Could be the fuel shutoff solenoid. Do you hear it click as soon as you turn the key.

Mine did that a few times when new but turning the key off/on made the solenoid work. It is fine now at 450 hours so I thought it might be a sticky solenoid that loosened.

 

[k0ua]

Hate to ask this, but any chance you are out of fuel, or have a stoppage?

 

[k0ua]

The relay that activates the pull portion of the fuel stop solenoid is the 3rd one from the left on the firewall, it has of course 2 wires on its coil, one is the 12 volts from the key on line. the other is a 1 second momentary ground that is applied from the the Display unit. This energizes the pull relay contacts, then those contacts apply 12 volts to the pull coil at high current (thru that 25 amp fuse) then the hold coil continues to hold the solenoid in at a much lower current ( less than an amp) thru that 10 amp fuse I mentioned.

James K0UA

 

[carhartt56]

Yes you should hear a loud click when you first turn your ignition on . That is your engine stop solenoid opening , and letting your fuel flow to the engine . Your solenoid is controlled by a relay on the engine fire wall , and the relay is controlled by your controller called the display unit which is also mounted on the fire wall .When you first turn your ign. sw. on your controller sends about a one second pulse of voltage to the relay which sends a 1 second voltage to the solenoid . the solenoid has 2 coils , one is a hard pull to first open the solenoid ( the click you hear when you first turn ign. on ) , and the second is a lower wattage coil I will call a holding coil which should have constant voltage with ign. on. I hope this helps .

 

[JohninCT]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yes, there is a loud click heard when the key is turned to on. Other symptoms I drained the batt trying to start, so had let it recharge some. I took the air cleaner out and sprayed some WD-40 in the canister. I cranked it and first nothing but I wiggled the drive select lever in neutral and got it to momentarily sputter and try to run. Is there some other interlock between the neutral position and fuel shutoff? Like I've said it has happened before in warm weather after tractor was running then shut off but wouldn't restart just crank and crank until the I wiggled the lever in neutral and then it fired right up.

 

[murphy1244]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yes, there is a loud click heard when the key is turned to on. Other symptoms I drained the batt trying to start, so had let it recharge some. I took the air cleaner out and sprayed some WD-40 in the canister. I cranked it and first nothing but I wiggled the drive select lever in neutral and got it to momentarily sputter and try to run. Is there some other interlock between the neutral position and fuel shutoff? Like I've said it has happened before in warm weather after tractor was running then shut off but wouldn't restart just crank and crank until the I wiggled the lever in neutral and then it fired right up.

According to my book there is a switch in there for neutral

 

[wallace]

Do not spray anything into your air cleaner!
Is this machine outside?
Look at your fuel filter.
Do you gell up?
Make sure you are getting fuel.
You can crack a injector line loose at the pump and you should see fuel trying to spray out. If it is coming out there then tighten that line up and go to the injector line up on the head and do the same.
only do one line at a time.

 

[JohninCT]

So here is the latest... Had batt on charge all night and went out this morning and turned key to pre heat and everythung as normal. Then with all quiet I slightly moved the drive lever around and pretty sure I heard a slight click. Turned key to start and it started and ran no problem.

So I'm wondering is there an adjustment of the drive lever to actuate neutral switch that needs adjust? The lever has some looseness when in neutral even though the neutral light is lit on the dash.

Any other advice or ideas? At this point i was just happy to get it started and moved into barn to be ready for the snow.

 

[k0ua]

It is not so much a switch as a variable resistor on the lower portion of the range selector lever. It has 3 leads, in its connector. I think the value of the resistance it sends to the control unit determines what "gear" to show on the display. L M H N. But I would think it would not crank if it was not working right, but your tractor would crank but not start. I will need to study this when I have more time.

James K0UA

 

[Coyote machine]

No, it will STOP the starter from cranking at all if it is in any position other than neutral. I know this from often turning the tractor off in medium range on the selector.
I suspect your neutral safety is incorrectly positioned and though the light shows neutral the lever is either in a gear or partially in a gear and the switch may lock out the ability to start but somehow still allows the engine to crank.
If you remove the knob at the top of the selector lever to the left of your seat when sitting in it, I seem to recall being able to get at the selector lever & switch, once you've removed the access plate.

Look for chewed wires, loose wires or a wire that is disconnected on the neutral safety switch; (lets refer to it as : nss going forward).
Report back results.

 

[k0ua]

No, it will STOP the starter from cranking at all if it is in any position other than neutral. I know this from often turning the tractor off in medium range on the selector.
I suspect your neutral safety is incorrectly positioned and though the light shows neutral the lever is either in a gear or partially in a gear and the switch may lock out the ability to start but somehow still allows the engine to crank.
If you remove the knob at the top of the selector lever to the left of your seat when sitting in it, I seem to recall being able to get at the selector lever & switch, once you've removed the access plate.

Look for chewed wires, loose wires or a wire that is disconnected on the neutral safety switch; (lets refer to it as : nss going forward).
Report back results.

CM the repair manual shows it as a 2000 ohm pot. not a switch. with 5 volts applied to one end of the pot. I am looking at an aussie manual but I imagine they are the same. Think about how the position of the range lever goes from L N M N H. and lights up the corresponding lamp on the dash each time. You could do it with a switch with several contacts of course, but from what I can see it is a 2K pot and the test procedure calls for measuring the outside legs at 2K ohms and then hooking it back up and turning on the key and measuring 5 volts on the high side, outer leg and measuring between 0V and 5 Volts on the center pin depending on where the lever moves the position of the pot. That is what I see. The center is supposed to go back to the control module. I suppose it reads the variable voltage and does and integration on it.

James K0UA

 

[Coyote machine]

James,
OK, a pot, that makes sense for reading the different positions of the range selector. (Never looked too closely at how it was laid out, was looking for a place to locate something under the access cover when I removed it, a looong time ago).
Being that its a pot that would make more sense that its acting up and allowing cranking but no start intermittently, wouldn't you agree?

 

[k0ua]

James,
OK, a pot, that makes sense for reading the different positions of the range selector. (Never looked too closely at how it was laid out, was looking for a place to locate something under the access cover when I removed it, a looong time ago).
Being that its a pot that would make more sense that its acting up and allowing cranking but in start intermittently, wouldn't you agree?

Well see it is a puzzle for me as I thought the control module takes the input from the pot, and controls the ground on the start relay coil. But the OP has said all along that the tractor cranks fine. I need to do more research if there would be any reason the shut off solenoid would not be held back. I though they were two separate circuits.. gotta study the diagram some more .. maybe tonite, depending if the wife want to go out or not... Friday is often our "date nite" And we are supposed to go tomorrow and "run thru about 28 people for the shooting portion of the CCW class they are holding at the church. I wish I could say more definitely how this works but I don't have 100 percent understanding of the circuits.

james

 

[Coyote machine]

What I can confirm from my own experience is: the starter will make a noise, as if it is going to crank the engine, when the selector is in gear and I turn the key to start the engine. The noise is a very quick start and stop of the cranking by the starter, and then it's locked out. I suspect this is a result of the delay in the time it takes for a properly working pot to get a reading and then stop the starter circuit and I suspect the fuel stop is kept closed too once the pot reads an in gear voltage.
I suspect it the OP replaces the pot, (unless there is something causing it to mis-read the values, like shorted wiring, etc.) that this should solve the problem.

 

[JohninCT]

What I can confirm from my own experience is: the starter will make a noise, as if it is going to crank the engine, when the selector is in gear and I turn the key to start the engine. The noise is a very quick start and stop of the cranking by the starter, and then it's locked out. I suspect this is a result of the delay in the time it takes for a properly working pot to get a reading and then stop the starter circuit and I suspect the fuel stop is kept closed too once the pot reads an in gear voltage.
I suspect it the OP replaces the pot, (unless there is something causing it to mis-read the values, like shorted wiring, etc.) that this should solve the problem.

So just for giggles I tried turning the key to start with the selector in gear (tried all L, M, and H). Starter is not disabled. Engine cranks full on. My tractor does exactly as you are describing if you have the PTO switch on and try to start the engine.:confused3:

 

[JohninCT]

Tractor started and ran perfectly all day yesterday... thank goodness!! since we had about 30" of snow. The blower got a real workout. This morning I went to start it to do some more cleanup and had trouble starting again. It sputtered like it was going to start first try but then it cranked and nothing. I put the heat gun to it for awhile and tried starting a few more times with no success. Then I took the fuel bowl off and it was fine, no gel or other issues with the filter. I regularly treat all my diesel with Howes in the winter to try to prevent problems. I picked up a couple of bottles of Diesel 911 anyway and put one in the fuel tank and filled the filter bowl with it. Cranked it a bunch more times and got a couple more sputters also while wiggling the selector lever around neutral. Finally got it to run. Lots of white smoke when it finally started but I figured that was just the Diesel 911 burning up. So, I'm still not sure whether my problem has anything to do with the selector lever or if it just wasn't getting fuel. :confused3:

 

[k0ua]

So just for giggles I tried turning the key to start with the selector in gear (tried all L, M, and H). Starter is not disabled. Engine cranks full on. My tractor does exactly as you are describing if you have the PTO switch on and try to start the engine.:confused3:

It is not supposed to work that way, Mine will not crank with the selector in any gear. Tested it this afternoon. when I got on it and tried to started it up, and without thinking I just turned the key, and it would not crank, it was in L, moved the lever to N and she fired right up. No smoking no sputtering, but it is NOT cold here, must be at least 60 degrees, what a contrast to yesterday, never got above 34, and windy, misty and followed by a cold rain most of the night, but when the sun came out about 10 this morning, it really warmed up. I could be wrong, but my personal feeling is that your no start problem has nothing to do with the range selector sensor.

James K0UA