Loader DK45 w KL1470 with bent frame advice

[Shawn B]

Howdy.

You gentlemen were incredibly helpful last year when I was tractor shopping. I was totally clueless then, and just a tiny bit less clueless now, but please consider me a complete and total newb.

I finally purchased a pre-owned, 400-hour, 2004 DK45 with a 1470 FEL, quick attach, bucket, front hay fork, rear hay fork, all pre-owned from Noonday Tractor in Texas.

It fit all the criteria on what I need directly from the advice of TBN. Love it. Great little tractor. Has done massive work on my 50-acre cattle farm.

I've dealt with some repairs and fixes, friends of mine wrenching and me helping and buying local parts (hoses, fittings, hardware, fluids) but nothing major. I am not a mechanic by any means, but my buddies are very (very) capable.


Now I have something major and need expert advice.

I started snapping the forward bolts, two per side, that hold the FEL to the tractor-belly. The ones right below the air-vent things on each side.

Finally figured out why.

I bent the entire frame of the 1470 loader. Standing in front of the tractor and looking at it, the left arm is twisted a few degrees outward to my left, the arm on that side is also a bit lower (at least an inch) from the right arm. It looks like theoretically the bucket was on the machine, sticking out front, and something huge smacked the bucket from left to right, really hard. Like a T-Rex or something.

We theorize the loader was tweaked when purchased pre-owned, and we aggravated the condition till now. We had to replace one of the pins on the left side (looking at it from the front) almost immediately after purchase.

I called the closest Kioti dealer today, Southern Tractor in Lufkin, TX. Seem like good guys, I've been out there to meet them when I was tractor shopping. The dealer is calling to find out if they still sell the 1470 bare frame only. We could switch all the hydraulics, hardware, and whatnot over ourselves. I don't know the cost yet.

I also looked up the current Kioti FEL for my tractor and it is a KL401.

KL401 Front End Loader | Kioti Tractors

The 1470 rig was certainly working fine for all my purposes. Moved around my 1,100 pound hay bales last winter with no issues, moved dirt all day.


Questions:

Is replacing my 1470 frame, if possible, the best option? My joystick and all hydraulics seem to work A-OK. No leaks, well maintained, fully operational.

Is there a huge difference between a 1470 (with new frame) and a KL401?

If no frame is available, should I stick with Kioti brand on a new FEL? Is there some other-brand better option?

Anybody have a recent price on a KL401?



Pretty much any input, advice, expertise or opinion on "what to do" is welcome. Whomever you are, you know more than I do.

I'll update with IF I can get a 1470 frame-only, and the price as soon as I hear from Southern Tractor.

Thanks for any help or guidance.

 

[Shawn B]

A new 1470 frame is $1,500.00, approx $500 in freight, and 60-days away across an ocean.

That option doesn't work on time alone.

I also need to double-check my brackets that attach the arm at the top to see if either one is tweaked.


Looks like I need a new FEL. And possible upper bracket-things.

 

[George2615]

You might check with a local body shop that has a frame straightener. They could probably pull it back in shape.

 

[ritcheyvs]

You might check with a local body shop that has a frame straightener. They could probably pull it back in shape.

I can't address your specific questions, but I think straightening the current frame has merit if it isn't cracked. Even then, cracks can be welded and/or reinforced in most cases. In addition to a body shop, other places (like a steel-working shop) may have the capability. All solutions require you to dismantle the current loader so fixing the old one isn't extra work. The hard part may be obtaining data for the frame shop to establish the final shape.

 

[TJP89]

Frame straightening has merit, but I would never feel totally sure about the loader again, and it would probably be weaker. The structural integrity is compromised now, but it may be the only option. How much is the KL401 and will it even fit the older DK?

 

[TJP89]

I think just a loader would be about 3 or 4 grand, but that's just guess since their usually discounted as a package with the tractor.

 

[DK35vince]

A new 1470 frame is $1,500.00, approx $500 in freight, and 60-days away across an ocean.

That option doesn't work at this time.

Could be wrong, but I thought the older 1470 loaders were US made by KMW (Kansas Machine Works)

 

[nc redneck]

I have a 06, Kioti 45 and owned a collision repair shop for 30 years. I would not let body shop try to repair loader on tractor. I would be very concerned about motor, case damage. Have you checked mount bolts and rear tire pressure ? It may sound stupid but I had a 1 1/2 drop on my loader to one side most of it was rear tire pressure and lose mounting bolts.
Check e-bay and craigslist sometimes loaders new and used pop up on these sights dirt cheap for older tractors. I have a Woods loader on mine and have never bent even though I miss use it a lot.
Good Luck
Scott

 

[Shawn B]

I appreciate the input gentlemen.

DK35Vince, same thing I found online about made in the USA, but I am going by what Southern Tractor in Lufkin, TX stated.

I have a 06, Kioti 45 and owned a collision repair shop for 30 years. I would not let body shop try to repair loader on tractor. I would be very concerned about motor, case damage. Have you checked mount bolts and rear tire pressure ? It may sound stupid but I had a 1 1/2 drop on my loader to one side most of it was rear tire pressure and lose mounting bolts.
Check e-bay and craigslist sometimes loaders new and used pop up on these sights dirt cheap for older tractors. I have a Woods loader on mine and have never bent even though I miss use it a lot.
Good Luck
Scott

I'm with Scott here and his expertise and line of reason. I'm not re-using a tweaked frame anything on a tractor.

It is not however the tire pressure or mounting bolts. There is no question on this end that the 1470 frame is tweaked. We've snapped the mounting bolts as mentioned. Replaced them and snapped the new ones. Southern Tractor advised me to just buy grade-8 from the hardware store, said there was nothing fancy about the Kioti bolts.


I'm worried about buying pre-owned on an FEL for obvious reasons, and am pretty sure I am going to buy a new FEL, Kioti and/or OEM equal-or-better quality.

How do I figure out what will or will not mount to my DK45? Is there a reference source on the forum or on-line? Aside from Woods, which I will look at, are there a handful of high-quality name-brand after-market FEL's to which I should direct my attention?

I can google if someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction(s).

 

[TJP89]

Not sure, I would talk to Woods and see what they say. FELs are pretty tractor specific, so your only choice might be to bite the bullet and buy a new KL401, if it's compatable, at least then you know what you've got.

 

[dfkrug]

Aside from Woods, which I will look at, are there a handful of high-quality name-brand
after-market FEL's to which I should direct my attention?.

Woods is a good choice.

Westendorf (loader.com) has been making FELs for many years. The TA-170 is one of theirs that would fit.

Like backhoes, each FEL maker provides the subframes to fit each specific tractor. You are looking at North
of $4k for one, plus tax, shipping, install, etc.

 

[holeycow]

The loader was built by welders. It can probably be fixed (maybe better than new) by a welder.

I had a loader that had cracked welds all over it, and was a little bent. Between me and a local welder we fixed it up and I have been using it for the last 14 years or so. It is just now showing signs of falling apart again. This after moving thousands and thousands of round bales and doing a little bit of dirt work and snow moving too.

My loader was made stronger than new the last time around. That was with about 12 hours of welding/fabbing by a good, solid tradesman.

I would have a good welder look at it before you buy a new loader...

 

[ritcheyvs]

... I would not let body shop try to repair loader on tractor. I would be very concerned about motor, case damage...

Hey redneck, Clarification please. Is your concern only about repairing (straightening) the loader while it is on the tractor? Or do you advise against straightening (and welding if needed) individual loader pieces off the tractor? Thanks.

Other Scott

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Have you considered using a heavier piece of equipment and tweaking the loader frame back?

Take enough measurements to puzzle out what isn't square and then start tweaking and remeasuring.

A full service body shop will have a fixture and chains to tweak whatever to wherever, BTW. You may consider calling around to see if anybody wants to give it a shot for grins and giggles.

 

[Shawn B]

Once again, all input is greatly appreciated. :thumbsup:

Woods does make a loader that will fit. The local Kubota dealer sells them.

Calling back Kioti again today, see if a current Kioti model will fit.

I'll look into Westendorf and the TA170.

Very skeptical of a local body shop and moreso trying to bend the frame back myself. I do have a very good body-shop about 20 minutes away, I will swing in and talk to them today to see what they say. If they don't do that type of work, they'd know all the other body-shops around here. Might even point me at a qualified welder to at least look at it.

I kind of figured this ain't gonna be a cheap or easy fix any way I go. If it's 4K or so for a new loader, I'll bite the bullet if necessary. For the moment, I can buy myself a bit of time as the rear hay-fork works just fine. It will be a pain moving bales with only one end of my tractor working, but it's certainly do-able on a temporary basis for a month or so. I don't have a big operation, nor that many cows to feed.

Almost 5-years into it, and I'm still amazed at how little I know about farming.

 

[TJP89]

Kinda ironic, the Kubota dealer selling a product to fix a Kioti.

 

[Shawn B]

Actually it's the local Mahidra dealer that sells woods.

Woods LC102 is what he says fits.

Product Details

$6,598 installed and tested.

Recommended tractor horsepower 20-40 hp
Bucket widths 60", 66"
Bucket rated capacity c.c. ft. (66" / 72") 11.6 / 12.8
Working width 4"
Maximum lift height 102"
Clearance under bucket 75"
Reach at maximum height 25"
Bucket roll back angle 35ｰ
Bucket dump angle 50ｰ
Tested hydraulic PSI 2,500 psi
Lift capacity at bucket pin 1,650 lbs
Breakout at bucket pin 3,000 lbs
Lift capacity at 19.7 ahead of bucket pins 1,200 lbs
Breakout at 19.7 ahead of bucket pins 2,250 lbs
Pivot pins diameter 1", 1.25"
Lift cylinder diameter 1.97"
Bucket cylinder diameter 1.97"

I am concerned:

1) Holy crap at that price. 1/2 the price of my pre-owned tractor. Ouch.

2) That is a 20-40 hp set-up for my 45 horse tractor.

3) I am worried about lifting 1,100 pound bales. Is that enough FEL? That lift capacity of 1,200 pounds 19.7" in front of the pins is a possible issue.


Also, finding an actual specification sheet on the KL1470 is rather difficult. Google, or my google-skills, are not yielding satisfactory results. Any help?

 

[Shawn B]

Woods is a good choice.

Westendorf (loader.com) has been making FELs for many years. The TA-170 is one of theirs that would fit.

Like backhoes, each FEL maker provides the subframes to fit each specific tractor. You are looking at North
of $4k for one, plus tax, shipping, install, etc.

I had to email Westendorf off their website to locate a dealer. Pretty silly not just pointing me at the local dealer so I could call them.

TA-170: Westendorf Front-End Tractor Loader

It *looks like* the TA170 and TA175 will both fit.

TA-170 Fits 4wd tractors from 20-65 hp.
Hydraulic Power-Mount
Quick-Attach System
Hose Kit
Standard Bracket Set
One Lever Joystick with Valve
and Manifold Kit
Bucket Gauge Rod
2 Lift & Bucket Cylinders
60 Tapered Bucket
66?72 Tapered Bucket (opt)
60?66 Skid Steer Bucket
and Adapter (opt)
Loader Upgrades
Hydra-Snap
Hydraulic Valve Block
Comfort Ride
Power Beyond
3-Prong Bale Spear
60" Bucket Teeth
60 Dozer Blade
72 Snow Scraper
72 V-Plow
Forklift with 42" Teeth
Brush Crusher

Brush Crusher Finishing Teeth
PACKAGE COMPONENTS
LOADER SPECIFIC UPGRADES & ATTACHMENTS
A) Lift Height:
122 - 10?
B) Clearance: 98 - 8?
C) Bucket Roll Back Angle: 27ｰ
Bucket Dump Angle:51ｰ
D) Reach at Max Height: 18
E) Reach at Ground Level: 24

Lift Capacity - AWC* (Actual Working Capacity).
(31.5 forward from pin)
1450 @ 1800 psi
1770 @ 2200 psi
Lift Capacity - Pivot Pin
1950 @ 1800 psi
2380 @ 2200 psi


TA-175 Fits 4wd tractors from 20-65 hp.
Hydraulic Power-Mount
Skid Steer Quick-Attach System
Hose Kit
Standard Bracket Set
One Lever Joystick with Valve
and Manifold Kit
Bucket Gauge Rod
2-1/2 Lift Cylinders
2 Bucket Cylinders
72 Skid Steer Bucket
60?66 Skid Steer Bucket (opt)
Loader Upgrades
Hydra-Snap
Hydraulic Valve Block
Comfort Ride
Power Beyond
3-Prong Bale Spear
60" Bucket Teeth
72 V-Plow
Brush Crusher

Brush Crusher Finishing Teeth
PACKAGE COMPONENTS
LOADER SPECIFIC UPGRADES & ATTACHMENTS
A) Lift Height: 122 - 10?

Lift Capacity - AWC*
(31.5 forward from pin)
2250 @1800 psi
2750 @2200 psi
Lift Capacity - Pivot Pin
3020 @ 1800 psi
3690 @ 2200 psi


It appears to my ignorant self that both of the possible Westendorf FEL's are stronger or more capable than the Woods unit posted above. Is that correct?

 

[holeycow]

Have you checked out the possibility of a repair job?

Personally I would take it to a welding shop, not a body shop. Even if the body shop can straighten it, it will probably still need a gusset or 4 to effectively hold it's shape. You want a welder to do that.

Aren't there any welders around. An experienced mobile oilfield welder could probably fix it in your yard. It's amazing what can be done with the tractor's hydraulics and some strategic blocking/bracing......

Don't get me wrong, it is probably not easy, but a smart couple of guys can fix stuff...usually, lol

The loader may not be worth fixing if it is worn right out. A new loader costs a lot of money. You might save 2/3 of that cost and have a very functional loader for many years to come.

PS, I just checked your original post. You bought the tractor with 400 hrs. That is still basically brand new in my world. The loader probably doesn't have enough hours on it to be worn out (by worn out I mean all the pivots/pins worn out). Too bad that the new Kioti parts are so far away... I know for a fact that my cracked and bent loader was far better after "my" welder and I were done with it. We fixed all its weak areas and made it a lot stronger by adding about 80lbs of steel to it. People fix broken stuff all the time. Find a guy with a small metal shop and a mobile welder. IDK, but I'd be hard pressed to just up and buy a new loader when I had all the steel already staring at me...just a little disfigured is all; Scarred; Experienced.

Chicks dig scars.

You need to have a welder look at it. There might be a guy right in your neck of the woods who's looking for a little fill-in job. Win win.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Several times I've bent and/or broken the forks for the caster wheels on my finish mower. There is a local steel fabrication and welding shop that straightens the shafts and re-welds them for less than the shipping cost of a new fork. At the risk of being redundant, I would consider repair unless the old loader isn't up to your needs.