Do I need a bigger tractor?

[namesray]

Get a bigger tractor or keep hat I have?

I am looking for all opinions and some common sense on if I should get a bigger tractor. For the past 8 plus years I have been maintaing 119 acres and running a firewood and mowing business with 2 kubota b series tractors. A b7800 with fel 30 hp and weighs about 3000. And a b3200 with mid mower and bush hog, 32 hp and tractor weighs about 2800lbs.

For the most part the b7800 is used for the firewood end and the b3200 is the main mowing tractor. Saves a lot of switching implements between jobs, especially since I also work another full time job and have to make every minute count.

I am doing over 400 face cord of firewood (I winch/skid tops out of woods, block, split, deliver) bush hogging over 100 acres (commercially) with 5 ft bush hog and mowing between 10 to 15 lawns and small cemetary. (Also have zero turn for lawn mowing 50in simplicity)

To my point, I put over 600 hours between the 2 tractors a year and I am using them almost everyday. My business is making me good money th way it is, but it sems I am workig awful hard with just a little too small of tractors. The b7800 is a little light for skidding logs, and fel is a little light on lifting capacity and height/reach to load my dump truck, which I do a lot. And many times I wish I had a 6 ftbush hog (about 16% faster by my calcs compared to 5 ftr.)

I like being able to go on lawns and wet areas with the lighter b series kubotas, but feel like I am missing the efficiency of some pulling force and pto hp. I know I can't have it all.

the tractors I have in my sights are a kubota L 3800. Or L3901. They fall in the proper weight range (can't go too big as I only have a 7000lb trailer, 5000lb cargo) Also a nortrac (foton) 35xt fits the specs and price range. The kubotas are around 25k to 27k new and as low as 17000 used, but far away. Kubota dealer close by, but only has new tractors. Nortrac, I have researched a lot and I would love to give them a try, but havn't set a demo up yet. No other deales close by.

I like both my b series kubotas I have now and I am very fortunate to have such nice equipmnt, but always thinking that bigger would be better. I would hate to trade one of the b tractors in and the larger one not work as good as I thought, but maybe if I did trade up, I would wished I did it years ago.

Please give opinions and talk some sence to me as I can not make up my mind. Thanks in advance.

 

[s219]

I traded from a B2920 to an L3200, mainly for better front loader capacity and larger front bucket, both key for moving firewood. Overall it was a good move for me, but the L3200 is a lot clumsier to maneuver than the B was (I'd call the B "nimble" in comparison). The L also has a lot better traction and lets me pull bigger box blade and rear blade (I realize the B3200 often uses the same size implements and front bucket as an L, but the L surely handles them better).

The main reason I wanted to comment was that I think the price numbers you have for the L models are way high. I paid about $18K for my L3200 with front loader about a year ago. Add a couple $K for an L3800. Not $25-27K as you note. Now the L3200/3800 are scarce, so you'd be looking at the 3301/3901 and some additional extra cost, but I hear the dealers are being competitive with pricing. Should be much much less than $25-27K. Heck, I can get a Grand L 3560 for that price range.

 

[GManBart]

For the life of me, I can't imagine why anybody would consider a Nortrac/Foton when a quality Korean brand tractor will be better made, have good parts support, a reasonable dealer network, and significantly cheaper than a Kubota.

Something like an LS XR3037H (non-cab model) would only weigh a couple of hundred pounds more than an L3901, have more PTO power, already have things like dual remotes, telescoping lift arms and stabilizer bars, and literally lift twice as much on the FEL....that would save a lot of time dealing with firewood, and heavy logs. Around here, without even haggling, you can get an XR3037H for $21K.

I'm not sure if Kioti makes anything in that weight class with the power you're looking at, but it would be worth checking...as would TYM if there are dealers near you.

 

[bigcut]

namesray,
I think GMan makes some very good points regarding the options, ie. LS XR3037H. I'm in SC PA. The only LS Dealer I'm aware of is in Gettysburg, which would be way to far south for you, but, you could use them to verify pricing. There's gotta be some LS dealers up in your area and/or in the Binghamton NY space.

I think the Kioti dealers are a little more abundant in the NC like around State College and Wellsville.

The other thing that I would call your attention to, is a question regarding your trailer size. The weight capacities you mentioned have you pretty close to being maxed out. Do they not ? It would be a shame to let that be the limiting factor, if you found the other tractor options ideal. Just something to think about.
Good Luck,
John

 

[UTCenturion]

I really wouldn't use your trailer limits influence your decision to a buy a tractor personally. I have the smallest m series kubota for all the same tasks you mention. I cannot imagine doing it with a smaller machine. Get the largest you can afford. I was originally thinking the largest L series but the 50 HP tractor really saves a lot of time. I'm am constantly surprised by how much i can lift without straining it. Which is especially handy when dealing with trees. If you have a large enough lift capacity you can mechanize your firewood movement so you dont have to do constantly make piles and then load trucks by hand. Put it on a pallet and never touch it by hand again. Would you really need the main large tractor to leave your main farm that often?

 

[LD1]

I cannot speak to other brands, But look at the L4600. Not much more weight than the 3800, but more power for the bushhogging. But I would also consider the acreage you mow. Is that 100 acres of bushhogging alot of 3-4 acre jobs? or a few 15-20 acre jobs. Given that it is bigger and not as maneuverable, if it is alot of small jobs, I dont think the 4600 will gain much over the 3800. But larger tires should offer a smoother ride if you do any rough jobs. And it would also offer more pulling power for the logging. Cost more too though.

 

[namesray]

The main reason I wanted to comment was that I think the price numbers you have for the L models are way high. I paid about $18K for my L3200 with front loader about a year ago. Add a couple $K for an L3800. Not $25-27K as you note. Now the L3200/3800 are scarce, so you'd be looking at the 3301/3901 and some additional extra cost, but I hear the dealers are being competitive with pricing. Should be much much less than $25-27K. Heck, I can get a Grand L 3560 for that price range.

Kubota prices taken from kubota.com msrp and used kubotas from tractorhouse.com. Thanks for input on your price, I will use tht for starting $ price when talking with dealer if I go larger tractor route.

 

[namesray]

For the life of me, I can't imagine why anybody would consider a Nortrac/Foton when a quality Korean brand tractor will be better made, have good parts support, a reasonable dealer network, and significantly cheaper than a Kubota.

Something like an LS XR3037H (non-cab model) would only weigh a couple of hundred pounds more than an L3901, have more PTO power, already have things like dual remotes, telescoping lift arms and stabilizer bars, and literally lift twice as much on the FEL....that would save a lot of time dealing with firewood, and heavy logs. Around here, without even haggling, you can get an XR3037H for $21K.

I'm not sure if Kioti makes anything in that weight class with the power you're looking at, but it would be worth checking...as would TYM if there are dealers near you.

I have always been around kubota equipment most my life. Dealer close by and great relationship. I know more about kubotas and feel most comfortable with them. Dont know anything about ls tym or kioti. I would tend to believe they are every bit as good as kubota, as I believe all major brands are about equal, kubota fits me well with their setup and such, would take a lot of research for me to get that comfortable with any other brand and dealer.

as for nortrac/FOTON, I have been researching these tractors for the past 3 plus years and made many calls to northern. Been going to try to set up a demo somehow. I do question the longevity, but the price for options you get really caught my attention at first. I believe that one could work for me, but would like to stick with kubota if could, but they do cost more.

I wont completly rule out the other brands mentioned. Thanks

 

[namesray]

namesray,
I think GMan makes some very good points regarding the options, ie. LS XR3037H. I'm in SC PA. The only LS Dealer I'm aware of is in Gettysburg, which would be way to far south for you, but, you could use them to verify pricing. There's gotta be some LS dealers up in your area and/or in the Binghamton NY space.

I think the Kioti dealers are a little more abundant in the NC like around State College and Wellsville.

The other thing that I would call your attention to, is a question regarding your trailer size. The weight capacities you mentioned have you pretty close to being maxed out. Do they not ? It would be a shame to let that be the limiting factor, if you found the other tractor options ideal. Just something to think about.
Good Luck,
John

I do worry about maxing out the trailer caps. Actually my business starts with the trailer if you really think about it. I do move equipment site to site quit a bit.

 

[LD1]

I think what he meant was buy the RIGHT tractor and THEN get the trailer to suit.

Dont compromise on what you need tractor wise because of your trailer

 

[namesray]

I really wouldn't use your trailer limits influence your decision to a buy a tractor personally. I have the smallest m series kubota for all the same tasks you mention. I cannot imagine doing it with a smaller machine. Get the largest you can afford. I was originally thinking the largest L series but the 50 HP tractor really saves a lot of time. I'm am constantly surprised by how much i can lift without straining it. Which is especially handy when dealing with trees. If you have a large enough lift capacity you can mechanize your firewood movement so you dont have to do constantly make piles and then load trucks by hand. Put it on a pallet and never touch it by hand again. Would you really need the main large tractor to leave your main farm that often?

I really would like a L4600/4701. Have looked into them but they are too heavy for my trailer. I really like the mx series and this would probably make the most sense, but then I would be revamping everything I have. Would then need larger trailer, which costs more, and would tow harder. My 1992 3500 dump would struggle I think with that much weight (tow fully loaded trailer with 3 face cord in truck as well), and then my 1500 pick up wouldnt be able to tow anything, so would have to upgrade that, more money.

I do move equipment off the farm alot. All the wood plots are other peoples property that have recently been timbered, and usually I am working 2 or more at once just to lock them in due to everybody seems to timber their property in the same year.

Also with the bushhogging part, I would be hauling a lot of extra weight just for an extra foot of cut width, would cost more money in towing.

But you are very right about not letting the trailer limiting me. I dont want another heavier trailer, but have thought about it many times. Thanks.

 

[namesray]

I cannot speak to other brands, But look at the L4600. Not much more weight than the 3800, but more power for the bushhogging. But I would also consider the acreage you mow. Is that 100 acres of bushhogging alot of 3-4 acre jobs? or a few 15-20 acre jobs. Given that it is bigger and not as maneuverable, if it is alot of small jobs, I dont think the 4600 will gain much over the 3800. But larger tires should offer a smoother ride if you do any rough jobs. And it would also offer more pulling power for the logging. Cost more too though.

The bushhogging seems to change a little each year. There is a good mix of both large and small fields. I do 40acres of my own and around 100 for others. Some 30 acre fields, some 2 acre , some real rough. Wouldnt want anything wider then 6 ft I dont think.

I have been eyeballing the L4600/L4701 kubotas.

LD1 what width bushhog do you mow with?
thanks for your input.

 

[art]

I can understand the potential for free time when working with a business and having a family also pulling for time. I also know that many of my customers feel that the need to put 300 hours on a piece of equipment a year to justify ownership of it to the business. I think that moving the one tractor up to the larger L-series could be a time saver for you or just to increase your output and potential profit.
The Kubota is a well built tractor and is the most seen on commercial operations as it has a proven track record of being able to work for thousands of hours with normal maintenance. Parts and service is available at many dealers across the world and not in isolated areas.

 

[art]

I can understand the potential for free time when working with a business and having a family also pulling for time. I also know that many of my customers feel that the need to put 300 hours on a piece of equipment a year to justify ownership of it to the business. I think that moving the one tractor up to the larger L-series could be a time saver for you or just to increase your output and potential profit.
The Kubota is a well built tractor and is the most seen on commercial operations as it has a proven track record of being able to work for thousands of hours with normal maintenance. Parts and service is available at many dealers across the world and not in isolated areas.

 

[LD1]

The bushhogging seems to change a little each year. There is a good mix of both large and small fields. I do 40acres of my own and around 100 for others. Some 30 acre fields, some 2 acre , some real rough. Wouldnt want anything wider then 6 ft I dont think.

I have been eyeballing the L4600/L4701 kubotas.

LD1 what width bushhog do you mow with?
thanks for your input.

I run a 6', and wish I had an 8. I am already pushing the limits of my machine. And a GOOD HD 6' cutter is indeed pushing it on a L3800 sized machine. Not the power, but the 1100# of weight in a good HD cutter

 

[Grant1]

I went through the same decision several months ago. I have worked a tractor service with a Kioti CK30 TLB for since 2005. Last year after mowing an unusually thick lot I decided to go with a bigger tractor. I orriginaly thought about a Kioti DK 55 but after actually sitting on one at the dealer realized that it was way too big. I settled on a DK45 HST. I was going to sell my CK30 but soon realized that the smaller tractor actually performed many residential tasks more efficiently than did the larger tractor. I also would have had buy a backhoe attachment for the DK45 if I sold the CK30. The DK45 does handle the larger tasks superbly but not without additional costs. I also had to buy a larger trailer to safely haul the DK45. I went with a Anderson 14K Gooseneck and sold my 7000K trailer. I am still toying with the idea of buying a backhoe attachment for the DK45 but in any case I will keep my CK30TLB. Bigger is not always better

 

[Gary Fowler]

Would then need larger trailer, which costs more, and would tow harder. My 1992 3500 dump would struggle I think with that much weight (tow fully loaded trailer with 3 face cord in truck as well), and then my 1500 pick up wouldnt be able to tow anything, so would have to upgrade that, more money.
Also with the bushhogging part, I would be hauling a lot of extra weight just for an extra foot of cut width, would cost more money in towing.
But you are very right about not letting the trailer limiting me. I dont want another heavier trailer, but have thought about it many times. Thanks.

When I bought my B26 TLB, I had to buy a trailer to go get it with (500 miles from my house one way) and elected to get one that I could also haul my LS P 7010C. I got a 20 ft with dual 6K axles, brakes on both axles, 2 foot dove tail with slide in ramps and heavy duty 12K rated front jack. It cost me $3150 delivered. I pull it with a 1500 series Z71 pickup and when empty I can hardly tell it is behind me. Loaded with my LS P 7010C I get 10-11 MPG and that is in the Arkansas hill country. Flat ground would be much better as once it gets moving, it pull pretty easy. I can pull it 70MPH on interstate and not strain the truck so I don't think you would need a new truck to pull any of the tractors listed. Stopping is the biggest issue but with the proper brake controller, it isn't an issue. With my P7010C on the trailer, I am almost maxed out with 8500 pounds of tractor, a bit over my vehicle's towing capacity, but not nearly maxed on the power capacity. I don't tow that much with it (made two trips of 70 Miles with my LS in 2 years) so I am not worried about damage to the truck

With the B26 on the trailer's maiden voyage, I got nearly the same mileage as empty truck, maybe 2 MPG less, most of the trip was freeway driving so not a lot of stopping and starting. The B26 doesn't have the wind drag like the cab with the P7010.

You could always trade up to a heavier trailer for just a bit of money to boot with your old trailer

 

[s219]

Kubota prices taken from kubota.com msrp and used kubotas from tractorhouse.com. Thanks for input on your price, I will use tht for starting $ price when talking with dealer if I go larger tractor route.

Knock off 12-15% from the sticker price for a typical street price on new Kubotas.

 

[GManBart]

With my P7010C on the trailer, I am almost maxed out with 8500 pounds of tractor, a bit over my vehicle's towing capacity, but not nearly maxed on the power capacity.

If LS' site is correct, you've got more than 8500lbs of tractor. They list the basic machine as 6,675lbs, the FEL as 1,892lbs (without bucket) and the bucket has to be 3-400lbs.....that's 8,867lbs at the very least. Add the trailer, another 3K or so right? that puts you pretty close to 12K....don't think they've had a 1500 series that could get near 12K until the 2015 models?

 

[jrclark]

If LS' site is correct, you've got more than 8500lbs of tractor. They list the basic machine as 6,675lbs, the FEL as 1,892lbs (without bucket) and the bucket has to be 3-400lbs.....that's 8,867lbs at the very least. Add the trailer, another 3K or so right? that puts you pretty close to 12K....don't think they've had a 1500 series that could get near 12K until the 2015 models?

It's not as much about the truck being able to pull the load, so much as it is the truck being able to stop the load. This is something I learned quickly after throwing a blower on a tweaked Mustang with stock brakes. Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you necessarily should. It almost cost me a car and a pair of new jeans.