Do Not Call List

Richard · Sep 28, 2003

This brings back a memory to me of seeing a guy who was as fed up with this as anyone... evidently he found out there was some kind of "telemarketers convention" somewhere and he also went there. He found out from hotel which floor "they" were staying on, so at about 3:00 am, he started calling their rooms and 'selling them' something or another. He taped the entire conversation and it was really interesting hearing THEIR reactions when THEY got the unsolicited calls (ok, so it WAS 3 a.m. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) none the less, he recorded the conversations, and I think it is available somewhere for purchase.

None the less, I got a vicarious thrill hearing how he "fired back" at them at their own game.

What I'll do at office, is put them on hold..

We get a lot of calls from "maintainence" /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif and they "need the model number" of our fax/copier... I say "Sure.. it's down the hall, I'll be right back" put them on hold, and continue reading TBN. I'll get back on phone few minutes later, usually gone... if still there, I'll tell them I'm standing in a line (only 2 of us at office, and I do all maintainence) and can they hang on for their info... THEN I put them on "hold/forget".

I had one dude call me back rather testy that he had to wait and I said.. "Dude, I TOLD you I had to go down the hall, and there happened to be a line..... now, if you will just SIT THERE & WAIT, I'll be HAPPY to get you your info /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I then repeated the same game of putting him on hold & forget.

My wife sometimes thinks I'm a stinker

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Richard

pruntyc · Sep 28, 2003

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I believe when they call you, it is not abridging the freedom of speech, to stop them from calling. As they are invading your home, you pay for the phone and should have the right to say who can call you. I don't think they have the right to try to make you listen to them, and that is what they want. Just like the separation of church and state. If you read it, it does not say that at all. It just says that congress can't make a law respecting, the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. In other words the law can't stop religion, doesn't say anything else about any other kind of separation. So what I'm saying it seems like they can make any part of it say just what they want it to say, and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. But I pay my phone bill, so in one sense I own it, so therefore, I should have a right to not get calls from someone who I feel is harassing me. I don't want their calls. My 2 cents worth.

DavidJ · Sep 28, 2003

My intention is not to start anything but here's my thought.

1% of the calls by telemarketers actually produce sales.

That means that 99% of us that never buy anything from them have to endure the calls.

Hanging up or putting them on hold doesn't work. If you do that your name goes back on the list and you're called again and again.

I always tell the calling person to remove my name from their list and then get their name and the name of the company/product they have called about.

The most infuriating ones are from the automated calls. It's just a long recording and you have no recourse of getting your name removed from their list.

dieselsmoke1 · Sep 28, 2003

Anyone gotten the "I'm Doctor X and my father just passed away and I'm trying to dispose of his estate which happens to include a warehouse full of tape" calls ? I've gotten 4 such in the last year, always a doc's dead father with tape for sale. I told the last one he really needed to work on some new material for his routine!

pruntyc · Sep 28, 2003

Mike, another thought, is this. On this web site, you tell us there are certain words we are not to use as it is family type site. Doesn't that break the freedom of speech?? And we are not to post on politics or religion, don't that break the free speech? See, there is places where we should have some rights on what we have to see or hear. Like we believe we have here. It isn't only what they say on the phone, but it interfears with what we are doing at the time. We have to stop and answer the phone to hear something we don't even want to hear.

OkeeDon · Sep 28, 2003

What about the small business that occasionally makes calls and can't afford spending $30,000 per year to purchase the list and weeks and weeks correlating it with their prospect lists? What about the 100,000s of jobs that would be erased (they'll tax you to pay for their unemployment benefits)? What about the FEAR engended in a small business that's worried about an $11,000 FINE because they accidently made a call to someone on the list. No, you people don't care about that do you. 

Tough. When I had my small business, I rejected all entreaties to do telemarketing. In my opinion, it makes more enemies than the immediate sales warrant. When I got solicitation calls at the store, I informed them that not only would I not buy what they were trying to sell, but that their company was now on my firm blacklist to never buy anything from them, because I disapproved of telemarketing. I usually said something like, "This is a real shame. I was considering your product, but now that you've called me, I can never buy from your company." And, I stuck to it - even if I had to cut off my nose to spite my face.

In addition to the legitimate products (Pitney Bowes comes to mind as a product I wanted but would not buy), the most calls came from the liars ("We need to update the serial number of your copier" -- I always said, OK, tell me what number you have and I'll tell you if it is correct -- we didn't own a copier) and the ones that ignored your request to be removed (17 calls from one Orlando vacation promoter in 3 days!!).

I had a small retail store and the calls invariably came when there was one employee in the store and a line of customers, some of whom left when too many calls came in. The calls cost me money!

I don't get any calls at home, because I placed myself on the Florida Dept. of Consumer Protection's list years ago. Back when we still got those calls, they were primarily from cemetaries - I always told them I didn't need them because I didn't plan to die. They usually hung up in confusion. Florida's list also has exemptions for charities and newspapers (the power of the press). I told those people that I was on the Florida list, and it would behoove them to get a copy of the list and use it, because anyone that pays $10 to get on a list and $5 a year thereafter to stay on it has no intentions of ever responding to any telemarketer under any circumstances.

You say you honored requests for "Do not call"? Fine. That means the victim has to endure at least one of your calls to get placed on a list in the first place, and probably more, because most people don't get P.O.'d enough on the first call to ask to be placed on a list.

A right of free speech? Sure. But, no one should be forced to listen to it, and that's what happens on a phone call. The victim has to listen for at least a short time before deciding to hang up, and that's just wrong. There is also a right to privacy, and telemarketers invade that right.

It's gotten so bad that we are seriously considering going "off the grid", cancelling our land line and going with nothing but cellular. So far, telemarketers are not stupid enough to try to call cell phones, but if that day ever comes, they should be lined up and shot. It already costs people money if they have their landline forwaded to their cell phone.

Sorry. There is absolutely no way to justify a telemarketer calling me whenever they want, to make me listen to something I have no interest in. There are other ways to bring attention to a product.

Next time, I'll tell you what I really think. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Von · Sep 28, 2003

New York state pasted this law a few years ago and it has been great! No more phone calls at dinner time telling me that they got my name from my neighbors and that they were going to be in the neighborhood! For everything from basement waterproofing to new windows. None of it true as all the houses on my road are less than 15 years old. We would get at least 2-5 calls a night! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif It was way out of control and the state stepped in and made up the do not call list. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't care who is out of a job, they will find other work. It's not like these are highly skilled workers, or high paying jobs.

Bird · Sep 28, 2003

( I always tell the calling person to remove my name from their list and then get their name and the name of the company/product they have called about. )

That may work for some companies, but it sure didn't work for MCI. I tried everything from being nice and polite to every trick I could think of or had ever heard of, and they continued calling pretty regularly. I've never used MCI and never will use MCI as long as there's another telephone company in existence. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

dieselsmoke1 · Sep 28, 2003

( well, all I can say is you have no idea of the contempt I feel for you. )

Being contempted by the Grimreaper.....certainly does not sound like a good position to be in. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Sounds like I struck a nerve with this thread. Just stating my opinion, no malice intended. In the grand scheme of things your opinion is just as important as mine. Can't say I feel contempt. Sounds like one of those times it's best to agree to disagree.

On the lighter side, I do hope you'll not invoke the powers of your moniker to wisk me away tonight. I've got way too much left to get done before moving on. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RanchMan · Sep 28, 2003

Grim -

Been a while since I posted a long retort to anyone, but felt your post deserved one. I'm not really in a combative mood per se, just a bit miffed at the "victim" mentality being portrayed by the telemarketing industry.

Everyone wants their little way - no concern about the VICTIMS who have to pay for it. 

So telemarketers are real the victims here? Nothing harmful when a family that gets bothered with 10, 20, or even higher numbers of calls in a given evening - no, they should be THANKFUL they get constantly distracted with unwanted intrusions in to their home? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

What about the small business that occasionally makes calls and can't afford spending $30,000 per year to purchase the list and weeks and weeks correlating it with their prospect lists? 

Providing incorrect information won't help your case. Per the Federal Trade Comission web site:

How much does it cost to access the registry?

Data for up to five area codes will be available for free. Beyond that, there is an annual fee of $25 per area code of data, with a maximum annual fee of $7,375 for the entire U.S. database.

So, for your average “small” business (5 area codes covers a LOT of territory), cost = $0. I suppose you'll have some costs involved when you buy the application that dumps the downloadable list from the FTC straight in to your auto dialer (provided your auto dialer doesn't already have an import utility built in to it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) So much for those "weeks and weeks" of correlating. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Even if the “small” businesses provides nation-wide service, if $7k worth of additional costs is going to put a company in to bankruptcy, I’m sorry to tell you, but they are operating on borrowed time as it is.

But the end of the telephone for unsolicited sales (or rather, perceived end) won’t destroy capitalism. Sales have been around for thousands of years, and advertising (in one form or another) as well. Businesses that choose to use telemarketing do so because its cheap and easy - simple as that - cost reduction. In today’s society there are TONS of effective mediums a business (small or otherwise) can use if they are too frightened - door hangers, “junk mail,” newspapers, e-mail, web sites, radio, T.V., door-to-door, billboards, standing on the street corner in a goofy costume, etc. Nope, I don’t buy the "small business is doomed" because of this at all.

What about the FEAR engended in a small business that's worried about an $11,000 FINE because they accidently made a call to someone on the list. No, you people don't care about that do you. 

Fines exist in order to help ensure compliance and affect behavior. If the fine for a speeding ticket were $.50 and your insurance rates didn't change regardless of how many tickets you received, how many people would be going down the highway at 95 mph? Same principle with criminal behavior (i.e. no jail time/consequences = repeat offenders). Are fines the answer to EVERYTHING? Absolutely not - but it isn't hard to stay in compliance with a no call list (thousands of companies in Texas have been doing it for a while now - and it only costs them $50 to get a copy of it.) Sorry, but staying in compliance with regulations (whether it be selling widgets, operating a restaurant, or running an accounting practice) is simply part of the business world. Yes, sometimes they are burdensome and unnecessary, but the end of the world in this circumstance? Hardly.

Anyone of you that supports this, without any grasp of its actual effects, what it entails and its real purpose, well, all I can say is you have no idea of the contempt I feel for you. 

Well calling folks ignorant isn't going to help your cause, nor is saying that you basically hate everyone who disagrees with you. Even IF the telemarketing industry is decimated (which it won’t be), products and services change over time - Those “millions” of “poor telemarketer” folks will simply have to buck up and find a new “career.” What about all the poor buggy whip manufacturers who aren’t around any more? (Don't forget - inevitably there will be job creation in other industries who work to circumvent/comply with the new regulations - i.e. not every telemarketer will be a welfare recipient as you imply)

Currently the “no call list” has about 50 million folks signed up. Since the U.S. population in 2003 (according to the U.S. Census Bureau ) is about 290 Million, you are only losing about 17% of your market. (Not a true loss anyway because those are the folks who most likely would have never bought anything anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) Now, consider that in 1980 the US population was 227 million and only 205 million in 1970. In other words, even if the percentage of people who subscribe to the no call list goes up for a given population, since the population is increasing, you will never run out of victims, err, uhh, customers to harass.

One final point -
To be consistent in your argument, you must also believe “No Solicitation” signs posted on doors are unconstitutional. Along with blocking “SPAM” email. Along with blocking “Pop-Up’s”. Etc., etc. Sorry, but I really don’t think the founding fathers were thinking about protecting salesmen when they were talking about free speech.

It boils down to this: Constantly disturbing people who are simply going about their daily life in their OWN HOME when they have SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED you not do so is not something that you are going to find a whole lot of support for, regardless of what sob stories or inaccurate statistics you present. If the no-call list goes through, the world will keep spinning, small businesses will still be in business, and yes, even the telemarketers will still be around. This is not the nail in the coffin of the small (or large) businessman.