Do you regularly start your diesel tractor as maintenance?

[TomSeller]

Sounds logical but in reality your engine doesn't wear out from starts. The more you run it the more reliable it'll be, sitting is the issue, start it run it.... HS

Engines obviously wear out from a cumulative effect of starting, run hours, abuse, type of use, design life, etc. The percentage due each category depends on the manufacturer and users involved.

 

[GManBart]

A lot has changed in Diesel engines over the last 10 years. High pressure injection and new fuels. So have metals, and valve arrangements and piston shapes. Oils are vastly different for diesels. Even the fuel has changed. So have coolants. EPA has added systems too. It's not your Dads diesel anymore, and much of what you all thought to be good practice simply is not anymore. Check the schedule for a standby generator, start them warm them up they'll be reliable, sitting is bad. HS

You're still comparing apples-to-oranges. None of the scenarios you've outlined is similar to the OP's.

Some fire engines, and many ships actually have pre-lube pump systems to minimize startup wear...for a reason.

Many standy generators are air-cooled...another different story. Many of them are also propane or natural gas systems which changes things slightly...another different story. They also run at full RPM, not idle, so the engine gets up to temperature....and they have a trickle charger that keeps the battery charged. In other words, it's nothing like the OP's situation.

Some smart folks at SAE cite studies showing startup wear is real, not theory:
STARTUP WEAR IN AUTOMOBILE ENGINES

 

[HarleyHetz]

I don't have a tractor yet, but I have worked on engines and gearboxes for years. I was also an engineer at Cummins where we built engines. I can tell you that starting an engine does indeed cause wear. Running an engine does indeed cause wear. Working an engine does indeed cause wear. Idling an engine does indeed cause wear.

What prevents wear? Oil.

Starting your engine, any engine creates heat, turning your engine off lets the heat dissipate. Take any item, heat it, cool it and you create condensation. Condensation will mix with the oil and reduce its' ability to prevent wear. Run the engine long enough to get it up to operating temperature UNDER LOAD for at least 15 - 20 minutes and you will burn off the condensation that you created last time you heated the engine up and cooled it back down, start it up and don't get it warmed up and work it, you won't. These are not opinions but well documented facts.

With all that being said, I don't start my motorcycle just to warm it up in the winter. I get on it and ride it across town at 80+ MPH for 30+ minutes to get to work. I have put hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycle engines, taken them apart, and put them back together, transmissions (or any gearboxes) are the same way. That's why they have the little breather caps on them, to let the condensation out!! Use a good oil (I prefer synthetic) and keep it changed with a new filter, THAT'S the BEST thing you can do for your engine!!

Now, does that mean that the OP has ruined his engine? Probably not, but it could. Your engine, take the chance if you want, but now you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "I didn't know"...

 

[houstonscott]

I don't have a tractor yet, but I have worked on engines and gearboxes for years. I was also an engineer at Cummins where we built engines. I can tell you that starting an engine does indeed cause wear. Running an engine does indeed cause wear. Working an engine does indeed cause wear. Idling an engine does indeed cause wear. What prevents wear? Oil. Starting your engine, any engine creates heat, turning your engine off lets the heat dissipate. Take any item, heat it, cool it and you create condensation. Condensation will mix with the oil and reduce its' ability to prevent wear. Run the engine long enough to get it up to operating temperature UNDER LOAD for at least 15 - 20 minutes and you will burn off the condensation that you created last time you heated the engine up and cooled it back down, start it up and don't get it warmed up and work it, you won't. These are not opinions but well documented facts. With all that being said, I don't start my motorcycle just to warm it up in the winter. I get on it and ride it across town at 80+ MPH for 30+ minutes to get to work. I have put hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycle engines, taken them apart, and put them back together, transmissions (or any gearboxes) are the same way. That's why they have the little breather caps on them, to let the condensation out!! Use a good oil (I prefer synthetic) and keep it changed with a new filter, THAT'S the BEST thing you can do for your engine!! Now, does that mean that the OP has ruined his engine? Probably not, but it could. Your engine, take the chance if you want, but now you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "I didn't know"...

You know that there are diesel automobiles with 500,000 miles on them and they measure at new tolerances. Your oil recommendation is a good one. We examined and tested our oils everyday. Ship diesels we examined oil every four hours while engines were operating. HS

 

[Threepoint]

Very interesting discussion. Thanks, OP, for starting it, regardless what you end up doing! :laughing:

I've always heard that diesel tractors shouldn't be started cold then shut down without full warm up. I've also always heard that even when warmed up, shutting down for, say 15 minutes, while doing something else, is worse than just leaving it idling hot. But that input dates back at least 20 years for me.

It occurs to me that emergency responders like fire departments and the USCG have a different concern than many of us with CUTs. Reliable immediate starts are especially critical for them, so even if short-cycle cold starts produce more engine wear, that could well be an acceptable trade-off for knowing they'll have no delays. :confused3:

 

[Gutt]

Hi all, I'm new here!

Just to throw in my $0.02 - I've had my Massey 30E for about 5 years and really only start it when I need to use it. Yes I may lose a little battery life by not using it extremely often, however I don't feel the need to burn fuel when I only need it once a month (sometimes I go a couple months without using it if we don't have any snow).

On the flip side, as Threepoint mentioned above, my fire department (I'm the chief of the local volunteer department) we start and run our trucks at least every two weeks. (we have a schedule... even if we were on a call that day we still run them) to make sure everything is in check.

There's a lot of valid points in this thread, but I don't forsee me changing any of my practices anytime soon!

Thanks.

~Gutt

 

[GManBart]

Hi all, I'm new here!

Just to throw in my $0.02 - I've had my Massey 30E for about 5 years and really only start it when I need to use it. Yes I may lose a little battery life by not using it extremely often, however I don't feel the need to burn fuel when I only need it once a month (sometimes I go a couple months without using it if we don't have any snow).

On the flip side, as Threepoint mentioned above, my fire department (I'm the chief of the local volunteer department) we start and run our trucks at least every two weeks. (we have a schedule... even if we were on a call that day we still run them) to make sure everything is in check.

There's a lot of valid points in this thread, but I don't forsee me changing any of my practices anytime soon!

Thanks.

~Gutt

Welcome!

 

[Buggs67]

Hi all, I'm new here!


On the flip side, as Threepoint mentioned above, my fire department (I'm the chief of the local volunteer department) we start and run our trucks at least every two weeks. (we have a schedule... even if we were on a call that day we still run them) to make sure everything is in check.

There's a lot of valid points in this thread, but I don't forsee me changing any of my practices anytime soon!

Thanks.

~Gutt

Hey Chief. Our fire companies (we have 6 in town) are out on calls at least every week. Also they have a drill day once a week and the trucks are started and used and refueled on drill days. I didn't want to chime in but since a fireman did I figure I'll do so.

 

[wmonroe]

Hi all, I'm new here! Just to throw in my $0.02 - I've had my Massey 30E for about 5 years and really only start it when I need to use it. Yes I may lose a little battery life by not using it extremely often, however I don't feel the need to burn fuel when I only need it once a month (sometimes I go a couple months without using it if we don't have any snow). On the flip side, as Threepoint mentioned above, my fire department (I'm the chief of the local volunteer department) we start and run our trucks at least every two weeks. (we have a schedule... even if we were on a call that day we still run them) to make sure everything is in check. There's a lot of valid points in this thread, but I don't forsee me changing any of my practices anytime soon! Thanks. ~Gutt

Welcome to TBN!

 

[MESSMAKER]

Looks like it does not really matter. Some are starting, some are not. Nobody is having problems either way. I think I will keep a trickle charger on it and start it if I feel like it, or not.

 

[Gutt]

Hey Chief. Our fire companies (we have 6 in town) are out on calls at least every week. Also they have a drill day once a week and the trucks are started and used and refueled on drill days. I didn't want to chime in but since a fireman did I figure I'll do so.

We're the smallest department in the 4th smallest county in Iowa... so we get anywhere from 3-12 calls a YEAR! we need to run our trucks to make sure the battery is up, everything is working, etc. because we dont have the luxury of running them often otherwise. Thanks for your response!

And thanks for the welcomes from everyone else!

 

[coveredbridge]

My tractors are stored in an unheated garage year round, but after a number of problems with cracked hoses and prematurely dead batteries, I make it a practice to start my tractors about every two weeks in the winter, if I haven't used them, and run them at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle for about 25 -30 minutes. If the weather is agreeable, I pull them out of the garage to run, more to avoid the exhaust fumes in the garage but also to stir up the hydraulic oil a little bit. I feel like this keeps the batteries charged and hoses and seals from drying out. If it's hurting my equipment, I haven't noticed yet. My 820 is over 40 years old and over 5800 hrs and still serves me well.

I don't have any basis for what I do, but I haven't had any battery, hose or seal problems since I started doing this many years ago.

 

[houstonscott]

My tractors are stored in an unheated garage year round, but after a number of problems with cracked hoses and prematurely dead batteries, I make it a practice to start my tractors about every two weeks in the winter, if I haven't used them, and run them at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle for about 25 -30 minutes. If the weather is agreeable, I pull them out of the garage to run, more to avoid the exhaust fumes in the garage but also to stir up the hydraulic oil a little bit. I feel like this keeps the batteries charged and hoses and seals from drying out. If it's hurting my equipment, I haven't noticed yet. My 820 is over 40 years old and over 5800 hrs and still serves me well. I don't have any basis for what I do, but I haven't had any battery, hose or seal problems since I started doing this many years ago.

It's what people do when it has to work. Keep it up. I really think letting it sit is the worst thing you could do if you want to walk out and start up and run. worrying about shorting the life of your engine from starts is theoretical, not reality. HS

 

[Dr_Zinj]

I run mine at least once or twice a month. Of course I'm actually using it, not just starting it up to run it and then shut it down. I'm doing slightly less than 200 hrs a year, which either makes me a poor hobbyist or a real slacker. ;-)

 

[skyhook]

It's what people do when it has to work. Keep it up. I really think letting it sit is the worst thing you could do if you want to walk out and start up and run. worrying about shorting the life of your engine from starts is theoretical, not reality. HS

I agree, although there may be "facts" to the contrary,,
smoking will kill you, my mother is 94 years young and has smoked all of her life, go figure.
Perhaps these new machines aren't made like they use to be, so maybe "they" should consider some of the advice given here regarding "idling" etc, etc....
I mean, the more you start it, the more the cylinder walls will be coated with oil, don't you think....
that coat of oil from the last start 3 or 4 days ago will still be on the cylinder walls,
let er sit for 2 to 3 months, maybe not so lucky and this "I think' is where damage is done, although slightly.

 

[GManBart]

We're the smallest department in the 4th smallest county in Iowa... so we get anywhere from 3-12 calls a YEAR! we need to run our trucks to make sure the battery is up, everything is working, etc. because we dont have the luxury of running them often otherwise. Thanks for your response!

And thanks for the welcomes from everyone else!

Okay, but you don't keep your trucks for 20-70 years, do you? I'll bet you also change the fluids more than once a year right? Those are important variables. You're also keeping them indoors in climate controlled environments right? Again, another variable.

Comparing a fire engine to a tractor just doesn't make any sense since the applications are very different. When you start your trucks, are they at ambient (outside) temperatures, or the temp inside the station? Another variable that makes a difference.

The OP is staring up a cold tractor, stored outside, and running it for nowhere near long enough to get the oil to temperature, so that it can boil off the condensation, which causes additional condensation, and acids to be created. We've had folks that were engineers at major diesel engine manufacturers comment how bad this is for the engine...along with someone who was a lubricant engineer (I think I recall that), but people still want to debate facts, and use anecdotal evidence drawn from completely different situations to base their theories upon....yeah, makes a lot of sense.

 

[GManBart]

It's what people do when it has to work. Keep it up. I really think letting it sit is the worst thing you could do if you want to walk out and start up and run. worrying about shorting the life of your engine from starts is theoretical, not reality. HS

All of the comments you've made have been theoretical, not reality.

 

[houstonscott]

I agree, although there may be "facts" to the contrary,, smoking will kill you, my mother is 94 years young and has smoked all of her life, go figure. Perhaps these new machines aren't made like they use to be, so maybe "they" should consider some of the advice given here regarding "idling" etc, etc.... I mean, the more you start it, the more the cylinder walls will be coated with oil, don't you think.... that coat of oil from the last start 3 or 4 days ago will still be on the cylinder walls, let er sit for 2 to 3 months, maybe not so lucky and this "I think' is where damage is done, although slightly.

I don't think with modern, oils, clean fuels, modern medal alloys, manufacturing tolerances, new plastics and gasket materials, direct high pressure injection, filter materials, much of old applies anymore. HS

 

[Citydude]

Okay, but you don't keep your trucks for 20-70 years, do you? I'll bet you also change the fluids more than once a year right? Those are important variables. You're also keeping them indoors in climate controlled environments right? Again, another variable. Comparing a fire engine to a tractor just doesn't make any sense since the applications are very different. When you start your trucks, are they at ambient (outside) temperatures, or the temp inside the station? Another variable that makes a difference. The OP is staring up a cold tractor, stored outside, and running it for nowhere near long enough to get the oil to temperature, so that it can boil off the condensation, which causes additional condensation, and acids to be created. We've had folks that were engineers at major diesel engine manufacturers comment how bad this is for the engine...along with someone who was a lubricant engineer (I think I recall that), but people still want to debate facts, and use anecdotal evidence drawn from completely different situations to base their theories upon....yeah, makes a lot of sense.

The OP says he runs it up to operating temperature. Wouldn't the engine oil be at operating temp as well?

 

[skyhook]

I can't afford nor do i want a new machine, pollution crap and electronic stuff just doesn't appeal to me.
A diesel engine already has lubricants in the fuel along with the oil from the crankcase,
a piston ring will wear out before a cylinder wall will, so, IMO....YES, there is wear in frequent starts if the engine is not brought up to operating temp's, BUT IMO, MORE damage is done , not doing so.
I suppose, to each his own, but personally, i will continue to start mine ( all of my machines, gen's etc ) every 3 to 4 days for 1/2 hour or so, take them for run to ta free things up.
What happens when it snows every day or work needs to be done on a daily basis
Listen, were talking about starting a machine every 3 to 4 days, I don't get whats wrong with this.
I know, I know, I'm bad.